Metal poll

[toe]

Tell us some info based on your choice.

[JEmirzian]

I had mentioned in the porcelain poll we were a new lab and decided to go with Pentron for our porcelain. We went with Pentron again for our metals. The support staff at Pentron, especally Denise, has been MORE then helpful. I'm very glad we choose who we did.

Jay

[Travis]

I was using d.sign 59 by Williams but earlier this year I switched to Spartan Plus also by Williams. I only have one porcelain oven and the silver content from the d.sign 59 was I think effecting the porcelain. Spartan Plus has 78.8% Pd and 2% Au with no silver. It works for me, I don't look for cheaper metal or shop around for a better deal, the doctor pays for what is use so I don't cut corners.

[JEmirzian]

Katrina and I have been using Pen Ceram 53 for a high noble white, Pen Ceram 06 for noble, Pen Cream 86Y and Pen Ceram 90 fo High Noble Yellow and Pencast 63Y for a casting gold. Also Rex III for non precious. We have had great results with all of them. Nice castings with great marginal fit.

[toothacts]

Yea, I have only one porcelain furnace also and prefer to use the silver free alloys. The silver content alloys contaminate the porcelain furnace with silver oxides which tend to discolor your porcelain restorations. A build-up of silver oxide in your furnace over time will affect all future porcelain restoratons.

Currently I use Jensen JP1 51.5% au 38% pd and Stability 78% pd 2% au with Creation CC. Most importantantly is to go with a reputable company making sure your porcelain has a compatable CTE for your alloy.

Even the silver free semi-precious alloys produce an over abundance of oxide when fired and require heavy layers of opaque to mask out the graying effect oxide migration has on vitality,especially the white A1 shades. I like to keep the shade integrity as true to the precribed shade tab as possible, by keeping my opaque layer thin and appying as much porcelain as neccessary, allowing for as much color depth as possible.

I have used Non-precious alloys in the past; Williams Lite-Cast B, Rexillium III & Argelloy NP, I know non-precious is a bad word but I have never had a remake in 30 years with NP due to bio-compatablity. The shade integrity is great ! almost zero oxide migration.

If I had my choice however I would prefer to use gold for all of my PFMs.

Alan.

[Dean Mersky, DDS]

My experience with cast PFMs is that about 75% end up with recession, many with discoloration of the root, gingiva, tooth, or any combination. The oxides necessary to bond porcelain is a major culprit, along with corrosion and the toxic nature of "some" of the components. The latter point was published in 1997 in Germany.

I have electron micro photos of the oxide layer on hi noble and NP. The Au metal has a layer of 1 micron, while the NP has 100 microns.

You might not have had complaints about tissue and NP, and clearly not everyone reacts or reacts the same. But I can promise you that there are reactions, even with other metals. I saw it for about 20 years with a variety. That is why periodontists tell GPs to stey supra ging with cast PFMs.

[TheLabGuy]

Originally Posted by Dean Mersky, DDS

My experience with cast PFMs is that about 75% end up with recession, many with discoloration of the root, gingiva, tooth, or any combination. The oxides necessary to bond porcelain is a major culprit, along with corrosion and the toxic nature of "some" of the components. The latter point was published in 1997 in Germany.

I have electron micro photos of the oxide layer on hi noble and NP. The Au metal has a layer of 1 micron, while the NP has 100 microns.

You might not have had complaints about tissue and NP, and clearly not everyone reacts or reacts the same. But I can promise you that there are reactions, even with other metals. I saw it for about 20 years with a variety. That is why periodontists tell GPs to stey supra ging with cast PFMs.

That's why Captek is the only true PFM crown.....lol
Seriously though, I'm wondering if anyone has ever taken an electron microscope and looked at the oxide layer between the opaque and metal (curious to know if it's a measurable amount). If it was, it would make me wonder about fractures on traditional cast PFM's.

[Dean Mersky, DDS]

Originally Posted by TheLabGuy

That's why Captek is the only true PFM crown.....lol
Seriously though, I'm wondering if anyone has ever taken an electron microscope and looked at the oxide layer between the opaque and metal (curious to know if it's a measurable amount). If it was, it would make me wonder about fractures on traditional cast PFM's.

I posted photos I obtained in an article I wrote for the JDT. It showed the oxide layer on high yellow noble to be at 1 micron, while low gold was 100 microns. In the photos the oxide filaments were better organized and thicker for the high noble and appeared much more fragile for the low noble. This might be only a characteristic of the metal brand shown, but research at Boston U indicated that the porcelain bond strength of yellow high noble and Captek were about twice that of low noble and NP metals.

[TheLabGuy]

Originally Posted by Dean Mersky, DDS

I posted photos I obtained in an article I wrote for the JDT. It showed the oxide layer on high yellow noble to be at 1 micron, while low gold was 100 microns. In the photos the oxide filaments were better organized and thicker for the high noble and appeared much more fragile for the low noble. This might be only a characteristic of the metal brand shown, but research at Boston U indicated that the porcelain bond strength of yellow high noble and Captek were about twice that of low noble and NP metals.

Wow, now it makes one wonder how many Non-Precious (car bumper) metal crowns fractured due to the oxide space under the opaque layer.....scary.

[Malcolm Graham]

Wow, now it makes one wonder how many Non-Precious (car bumper) metal crowns fractured due to the oxide space under the opaque layer.....scary

From what I have seen of non precious pfm failures is the bond of the oxide layer fails from the metal. The piece of porcelain that breaks away has the oxide layer bonded to it and the alloy has no oxides. I try to use non prec for Maryland bridges only. Other than that I use nobel and high nobel alloys that fit into the porcelains CTE recomendations.

[Al.]

I use HN. W, from Ivoclar 54% au. Also I use Brite Gold 96.3% au (BG XH 88.9%for bridges) as a replacement to captec. Glass bead the inside and you cant tell the difference between the two.
One thing I dont like is to use an alloy like some high PD types that require you to sand blast after oxidation.
Higher prices isnt really a factor for me because its been an incentive for Drs to use all ceramic.
Also I love the return on the scrap!!!!

[sixonice]

Originally Posted by Al.

I use HN. W, from Ivoclar 54% au. Also I use Brite Gold 96.3% au (BG XH 88.9%for bridges) as a replacement to captec. Glass bead the inside and you cant tell the difference between the two.
One thing I dont like is to use an alloy like some high PD types that require you to sand blast after oxidation.
Higher prices isnt really a factor for me because its been an incentive for Drs to use all ceramic.
Also I love the return on the scrap!!!!

I agree with everything you mentioned on the alloys! One thing I can recommend to you is ask your Ivoclar rep about the HN Evolution Lite alloy. This is a 40% gold (high noble white color) that works just like the "W" and costs over $100 less per ounce! The Evolution Lite also has a lower density, so you will get an extra coping (or two) on every ounce!!!

[Al.]

Originally Posted by sixonice

I agree with everything you mentioned on the alloys! One thing I can recommend to you is ask your Ivoclar rep about the HN Evolution Lite alloy. This is a 40% gold (high noble white color) that works just like the "W" and costs over $100 less per ounce! The Evolution Lite also has a lower density, so you will get an extra coping (or two) on every ounce!!!

Thanks Ill ck that out because I see it has only 9.2 ag.
Also I can use the POM kit on that but not on W. I bought that kit when it first came out but they dont have a incisal porc to add on after its pressed
All they have is denten shades to match the ingots.
I used it once and it worked ok but I can build quicker. I thought I might use it to press on to some larger bridge frames or maryland bridges or implants that require alot of tissue coverage, but without enamel add on porc I guess it will collect dust.

[sixonice]

Originally Posted by Al.

Thanks Ill ck that out because I see it has only 9.2 ag.
Also I can use the POM kit on that but not on W. I bought that kit when it first came out but they dont have a incisal porc to add on after its pressed
All they have is denten shades to match the ingots.
I used it once and it worked ok but I can build quicker. I thought I might use it to press on to some larger bridge frames or maryland bridges or implants that require alot of tissue coverage, but without enamel add on porc I guess it will collect dust.

Yeah, the 9.2% Silver has (and will have no) effect on anything you do in the lab. The CTE on the Evo Lite, like you said allows for the PoM system. The PoM delivers nice results for it just being a full press, stain & glaze. I like the option of pressing 360 shoulders super easily. Do you use the conventional InLine porcelain for layering?

[Al.]

Originally Posted by sixonice

Yeah, the 9.2% Silver has (and will have no) effect on anything you do in the lab. The CTE on the Evo Lite, like you said allows for the PoM system. The PoM delivers nice results for it just being a full press, stain & glaze. I like the option of pressing 360 shoulders super easily. Do you use the conventional InLine porcelain for layering?

Yep I use InLine, Do you know if they are going to come up with an enamal porcelin to layer onto POM????

[sixonice]

Originally Posted by Al.

Yep I use InLine, Do you know if they are going to come up with an enamal porcelin to layer onto POM????

I think it is a future possibility.....no question. I believe the interest within the customers is there to formulate some incisal powders for PoM. I have a few friends that have expressed the interest to do some layering on PoM if an incisal option was out there. I would stay turned.