Rather quit than go broke

dentalLabInOregon · 07-22-2008, 09:34 AM

Having the same trouble here, (cheap crowns) I was thinking of throwing in the towel and doing something else, I really love doing lab work and I thought it would last my life time. Just a small lab but between china and big labs paying crap wages to the up and comming robots there won't be any good ceramist or techs being trained. and milling everything or pressing over metal or milled substructures (Copings) has changed the field maybe for the better if you have the money to compete with the technology. i just miss the relationship the older doctors had with the lab tech and the quality of care that each of us shared

BJ

yooper886 · 07-22-2008, 10:31 AM

I own a removable lab so it has not hit me as hard but I can only advise you not to compete with the chinese labs or the large box labs on price or turn around . Find your niche and market it to dentists who want it. This is what removable labs have had to do for years and we are still surviving, some of us better then ever. Maybe some of the other fixed techs can help you more with this. Remember if you try to compete against them on price or turn around times alone then they have already won the battle because as a small lab you can not compete with them on those grounds. Also you can out source to most of the big labs products that you can not make in yours, kind of like what I do with my partial frameworks. This way you can still offer most of the products that everyone else does, maybe you are already doing this. Find out what makes you different and unique and market it.

Fixed techs, reminds me of the price is right. Please be kind and have your techs fixed to control the population.

TheLabGuy · 07-22-2008, 04:47 PM

Mr. Oregon,
As with everything, things change. Unfortunately, you're spot on when I look back at the old way communication versus the new way of doing things when it comes to the Technician/Doctor relationship. Yooper has some great advice about finding your niche. You might even want to go into depth about communication (unlike some of the bigger labs/or chinese) with your welcome packets and start beating on the doors. Ever thought about hiring a salesperson (hint: hot chicks do come in handy from time to time), or taking donuts to perspective Doctors in the morning, get with the chamber of commerce in all the surrounding areas to send you any info on the Dentists in the area, also put on a after hours clinic over something new your offering (Dentist eat knowledge up like that), or find out if any Dentist study groups are going on and go to them. There is so many possibilities to get work, I'd hate for you to hang up your talents because you "think" you can't get the work, trust me, the work is out there, just have to market your talents a different way. Hope this helps, and Good Luck.

Al. · 07-22-2008, 06:14 PM

Oregon, how do your prices compare to other labs in the area, not mail order lab work but your local competition.
Most Drs Ive met want a reasonable priced crown, not a cheap one, and not a super high priced one. The cheap crn producers will ge alot of crappy Drs but no remakes because they will seat everything. The super high end Drs need alot of hand holding and butt kissing. Neither one of those are for me.
Have you invested the 15 grand for your own pressing system? IMO, a lab today wont survive if they dont have a system to do pressed crns both singles and bridges and pom and press to zr. I personally use Dale to mill copings or bridges,when I have a call for it. Im not going to invest in a milling system anytime soon.
The way I see it the big labs and overseas labs cant compete with me.
They dont go to the office and do shade cks or look at those anteriers that just dont look quite right when the Dr cant explan it over the phone.
They dont pick up a ptr in the evening and have it back the next day to wax those crns under a partial.
They dont turn those crns around in 3 days for the patient thats "going out of town".
This is a hard business we are in!!
I was going to hang it up 12 yrs ago. I had a full time waxer, metal finisher model/delivery person, 2 after hour piece workers, and a parttime person to do office and billing.
It was my most difficult time in lab business. Either so much work that we had screwups or not enough to pay bills and taxes and constant bitching from employees and the difficulty of finding and keeping quality employees that wanted to work.
So over a time, I fired everybody!
Now its just me and my wife. She does the billing and model work and pickups and I do everyting else.
Im making more money now then I ever did before. We do between 40 to 60 units a week. But I had to change my system. I work by the week now. I trim dies and wax pfms Mon. Invest pfms tues and wax all ceramic. Finish metal on wed and press. Thurs finish and opague and try to start building.
Finish building on Fri and start grinding, and 2nd bakes and glaze on Sat.
My wife delivers all the weeks work on Mon AM so the Drs seldom call looking for cases.
I work ALOT of hours, but with half the stress.
In my opinion small labs rule!!!!!!

Good Luck, Al
PS: the milling technology isnt going to change things too much thats just for production, What we have to be prepared for is digital impressions.

labdude · 07-22-2008, 06:51 PM

Bill, Rob, and Al,
That is the best info and advice. Well said and well put.
Mike.

trisha · 07-22-2008, 09:39 PM

Quote:

(hint: hot chicks do come in handy from time to time)

Don't forget ya gotta get through the girls at the front desk, a hot chick probably won't be a good investment.

just my 2 cents,
trisha

Al. · 07-22-2008, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trisha

Don't forget ya gotta get through the girls at the front desk, a hot chick probably won't be a good investment.

just my 2 cents,
trisha

Thats funny! There was this guy that was always trying to steal an account of mine. He was always giving the girls at the front donuts and flowers.

labdude · 07-22-2008, 10:28 PM

Everybody has their weakness Trisha. You hot chick you.

Al. · 07-23-2008, 08:10 AM

As far as hot chicks for sales, I do work for 9 women Dentists,
and only 5 male dentists, so sometimes its good to be a
Hot LabDude.

trisha · 07-23-2008, 03:31 PM

Quote:

He was always giving the girls at the front donuts and flowers.

Now thats what I'm talkin about! Before starting my lab, I worked as a tech/assistant for 7 years, and food is the way to go!!!!! Every one asks who brought this and your name gets repeated all day long, you are the hero of the day. You never forget who brings you goodies.

Quote:

sometimes its good to be a
Hot LabDude.

Too funny!! Right Labdude?!

labdude · 07-23-2008, 04:13 PM

You can't touch this.

Synovio · 08-21-2009, 07:47 AM

I do very nice conventional PFM work, but I don't have much work to do anymore. Either the economy is keepin' people from gettin' crowns or the robots are pushin' me out..I dunno..I been huntin' fer new accounts but so far no go..it all looks bleak ta' me..
I'm back ta' teachin' guitar part time..very boring..but ya gotta buy them Ramen Noodles ya know?..(Everybuddy loves Ramen)
I wuz hopin' ta get 5 more years out of PFM work. Then I could semi retire and start up a punk rock band or sumpthin' fer extree income..Sure, I'd put pins in my face an' jump aroun' the stage lookin' like an A-hole if the price was rite..sure I would..
If I hit the lottery tonight, then please disregard this whining tale..as I'll likely be on a plane fer Vegas.

SSDS · 08-21-2009, 09:06 PM

Hi Dental Lab In Oregon, I down sized 9 years ago I thought the industry would start to slow down with todays generation having much better cared for teeth than ours. I had less drs I work for now but they were my good accounts that have been with me for over 20 years, no donuts or hot sales chicks have a chance of getting to see them. I started to enjoy the work more, I got involved in more complex implant work as implants have been growing world wide by over 30%, so this has been a growth area. I feel I am doing the best work now that I have ever done before and enjoying every minute of it. I have become a small boutique lab and some of my clients are now doing their first implant cases which is fine, I only get a new client if one of the drs working there go out on their own but I have been so close to them and they have been so dependent on me for info and technical assistance that they probably won't leave me. I cannot compete with $29 crowns from china or the big labs but there is a place for me that I have found and it suites me well. If you start competing with the chinese and cheap labs you will get new customers and then they will move on when somebody else comes along that is cheaper. One thing you have an advantage in is you have face to face contact with the dr and the patient, the chinese labs cannot do this. Find you position in this dental world and strive to establish yourself there. Good luck.
Jim

07-22-2008, 09:34 AM	#1 (permalink)
dentalLabInOregon Newbie Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Oregon Age: 47 Posts: 2 Rep Power: 0	Rather quit than go broke Having the same trouble here, (cheap crowns) I was thinking of throwing in the towel and doing something else, I really love doing lab work and I thought it would last my life time. Just a small lab but between china and big labs paying crap wages to the up and comming robots there won't be any good ceramist or techs being trained. and milling everything or pressing over metal or milled substructures (Copings) has changed the field maybe for the better if you have the money to compete with the technology. i just miss the relationship the older doctors had with the lab tech and the quality of care that each of us shared BJ

07-22-2008, 10:31 AM	#2 (permalink)
yooper886 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Sault Ste Marie, MI Age: 44 Posts: 119 Rep Power: 3	I own a removable lab so it has not hit me as hard but I can only advise you not to compete with the chinese labs or the large box labs on price or turn around . Find your niche and market it to dentists who want it. This is what removable labs have had to do for years and we are still surviving, some of us better then ever. Maybe some of the other fixed techs can help you more with this. Remember if you try to compete against them on price or turn around times alone then they have already won the battle because as a small lab you can not compete with them on those grounds. Also you can out source to most of the big labs products that you can not make in yours, kind of like what I do with my partial frameworks. This way you can still offer most of the products that everyone else does, maybe you are already doing this. Find out what makes you different and unique and market it. Fixed techs, reminds me of the price is right. Please be kind and have your techs fixed to control the population. __________________ Bill Seward Owner Superior Oral Prosthetics, Inc. http://www.superior-oral-prost.com/

07-22-2008, 04:47 PM	#3 (permalink)
TheLabGuy Just a Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1459 Rep Power: 4	Mr. Oregon, As with everything, things change. Unfortunately, you're spot on when I look back at the old way communication versus the new way of doing things when it comes to the Technician/Doctor relationship. Yooper has some great advice about finding your niche. You might even want to go into depth about communication (unlike some of the bigger labs/or chinese) with your welcome packets and start beating on the doors. Ever thought about hiring a salesperson (hint: hot chicks do come in handy from time to time), or taking donuts to perspective Doctors in the morning, get with the chamber of commerce in all the surrounding areas to send you any info on the Dentists in the area, also put on a after hours clinic over something new your offering (Dentist eat knowledge up like that), or find out if any Dentist study groups are going on and go to them. There is so many possibilities to get work, I'd hate for you to hang up your talents because you "think" you can't get the work, trust me, the work is out there, just have to market your talents a different way. Hope this helps, and Good Luck. __________________ Semper Fi, Rob Teachout, CDT, LVI, BSc http://www.patriotdentallab.com

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07-22-2008, 06:14 PM	#4 (permalink)
Al. Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Kentucky Posts: 932 Rep Power: 3	Oregon, how do your prices compare to other labs in the area, not mail order lab work but your local competition. Most Drs Ive met want a reasonable priced crown, not a cheap one, and not a super high priced one. The cheap crn producers will ge alot of crappy Drs but no remakes because they will seat everything. The super high end Drs need alot of hand holding and butt kissing. Neither one of those are for me. Have you invested the 15 grand for your own pressing system? IMO, a lab today wont survive if they dont have a system to do pressed crns both singles and bridges and pom and press to zr. I personally use Dale to mill copings or bridges,when I have a call for it. Im not going to invest in a milling system anytime soon. The way I see it the big labs and overseas labs cant compete with me. They dont go to the office and do shade cks or look at those anteriers that just dont look quite right when the Dr cant explan it over the phone. They dont pick up a ptr in the evening and have it back the next day to wax those crns under a partial. They dont turn those crns around in 3 days for the patient thats "going out of town". This is a hard business we are in!! I was going to hang it up 12 yrs ago. I had a full time waxer, metal finisher model/delivery person, 2 after hour piece workers, and a parttime person to do office and billing. It was my most difficult time in lab business. Either so much work that we had screwups or not enough to pay bills and taxes and constant bitching from employees and the difficulty of finding and keeping quality employees that wanted to work. So over a time, I fired everybody! Now its just me and my wife. She does the billing and model work and pickups and I do everyting else. Im making more money now then I ever did before. We do between 40 to 60 units a week. But I had to change my system. I work by the week now. I trim dies and wax pfms Mon. Invest pfms tues and wax all ceramic. Finish metal on wed and press. Thurs finish and opague and try to start building. Finish building on Fri and start grinding, and 2nd bakes and glaze on Sat. My wife delivers all the weeks work on Mon AM so the Drs seldom call looking for cases. I work ALOT of hours, but with half the stress. In my opinion small labs rule!!!!!! Good Luck, Al PS: the milling technology isnt going to change things too much thats just for production, What we have to be prepared for is digital impressions.

07-22-2008, 06:51 PM	#5 (permalink)
labdude Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1971 Rep Power: 4	Bill, Rob, and Al, That is the best info and advice. Well said and well put. Mike.

07-22-2008, 10:28 PM	#8 (permalink)
labdude Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1971 Rep Power: 4	Everybody has their weakness Trisha. You hot chick you.

07-23-2008, 08:10 AM	#9 (permalink)
Al. Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Kentucky Posts: 932 Rep Power: 3	As far as hot chicks for sales, I do work for 9 women Dentists, and only 5 male dentists, so sometimes its good to be a Hot LabDude.

07-23-2008, 04:13 PM	#11 (permalink)
labdude Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1971 Rep Power: 4	You can't touch this.

08-21-2009, 07:47 AM	#12 (permalink)
Synovio Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 14 Rep Power: 0	I do very nice conventional PFM work, but I don't have much work to do anymore. Either the economy is keepin' people from gettin' crowns or the robots are pushin' me out..I dunno..I been huntin' fer new accounts but so far no go..it all looks bleak ta' me.. I'm back ta' teachin' guitar part time..very boring..but ya gotta buy them Ramen Noodles ya know?..(Everybuddy loves Ramen) I wuz hopin' ta get 5 more years out of PFM work. Then I could semi retire and start up a punk rock band or sumpthin' fer extree income..Sure, I'd put pins in my face an' jump aroun' the stage lookin' like an A-hole if the price was rite..sure I would.. If I hit the lottery tonight, then please disregard this whining tale..as I'll likely be on a plane fer Vegas.

08-21-2009, 09:06 PM	#13 (permalink)
SSDS Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 31 Rep Power: 0	Hi Dental Lab In Oregon, I down sized 9 years ago I thought the industry would start to slow down with todays generation having much better cared for teeth than ours. I had less drs I work for now but they were my good accounts that have been with me for over 20 years, no donuts or hot sales chicks have a chance of getting to see them. I started to enjoy the work more, I got involved in more complex implant work as implants have been growing world wide by over 30%, so this has been a growth area. I feel I am doing the best work now that I have ever done before and enjoying every minute of it. I have become a small boutique lab and some of my clients are now doing their first implant cases which is fine, I only get a new client if one of the drs working there go out on their own but I have been so close to them and they have been so dependent on me for info and technical assistance that they probably won't leave me. I cannot compete with $29 crowns from china or the big labs but there is a place for me that I have found and it suites me well. If you start competing with the chinese and cheap labs you will get new customers and then they will move on when somebody else comes along that is cheaper. One thing you have an advantage in is you have face to face contact with the dr and the patient, the chinese labs cannot do this. Find you position in this dental world and strive to establish yourself there. Good luck. Jim