Made in China-Np PFM crown $29.00

[clearH2O]

Hi Travis or anyone who is concerned,

Please give your opinions on this news from LMT issue Nov/Dec awares US dental lab:

Trading in for a newer model
by marribeth Marsico, senior editor

On page 16 he writes:

In an e-poll of 230 laboratory owners and managers, LMT asked...
...

56% No change; I've always been opposed to it and still am
23% No change; I've always seen how it can be a viable bussiness strategy for some laboratories
11% I used ro oppose it but now see how it can be a practical solution for some owners
3% I used to support the idea but I'm less open to it now than I was before.
7% Other/undecided

Where are you on this issue? I found on LMT advertised page:

treedentallab of China prices it $29.00/unit Np PFM.

How to shake up the industries and inform our US citizens that they paid atleast $500.00 or higher for one Np PFM crown to the dental office for made in $29.00 crown?

Thanks

ClearH2O

[Travis]

I will try and read it this weekend. From what you just said or from what I got from it, I don't know were I stand on this. I am about keeping jobs in our country and helping people who have the skills that they get paid appropriately. Were in this country can you get a custom made product for less than 100.00?
I do think the patient should know what the doctor paid for the restoration and were it was made. I wish I could market this web site to people (patients) so they can ask us what our views our.

[JEmirzian]

I'm going to agree with Travis. The patient should know where it came from and how much his/her crown was. A $29 NP crown is beyond cheap, but how is the quality? I can't imagine it would be good. Then again there are different levels of dentistry out there. I think the majority of the population thinks that if a dentist gets his or her degree then they were properly trained. One thing I learned quickly in my college years is you can only take from school what you’re willing to learn. That said, it really comes down to the professional as to the level of quality he or she wants to uphold. I think the biggest key here is educating the general population on the quality of dentistry.

[mzrdmd]

As a dentist, I would NEVER put something like this in the mouth of one of my patients. In all fairness, I do not know the quality of the restoration, but that doesn't change my mind.

As an American, I am sick and tired of seeing "Made in China". Same goes for Mexico, Taiwan, Hong Kong.......anywhere but USA !

I don't know if it would be a good idea for patients to know what our costs are if it were for only one thing. For example, if I pay $150 for a crown, but my fee is $500 or higher, the patient will want to know why the "mark up" is $350. What the patient does not see is the staff fees, insurance, equipment, utilities, school debt, etc., that all go into overhead.

Now, if the patient were able to see all of that, sure, I'd be all for letting them know what our costs are.

In reality, though, do any of us really know how much it costs GM to make a car ? How much it costs the dealer to buy it ? Also, if labor is so much cheaper in other countries, why do imported cars not cost much less than American cars ?

Just like Travis said, I'm all for keeping jobs in the good ole' USA. I really don't care that much about how much money I could cut from my cost for a crown. I pride myself on doing the absolute best job that I possibly can every single time I treat a patient. Am I the best dentist ever ? Certainly not. Am I the best dentist that I can personally be ? I think I'm pretty close. Of course, there is always room for improvement, though.

Getting back on topic, the dentists that use this lab in China may not even know that they are using it. As another example, say I send my work to Lab A. They, in turn, send it to China. They pay the Chinese lab $29, charge me $150, and as long as it is consistent with the quality to which I am accustomed, I would probably never know the difference.

I would post a link, but I can't connect to dentaltown.com right now, but there was a thread called "off-shore labs" that was being kicked around a while back. Check it out.

Thanks for letting me vent,

Mike

[labdude]

All true Mike. I agree 100%.
We all wonder however, what type porshe do you drive?? Maybe you have a Bugatti Veynor on order?? Just teasing.
Really, check out the site for that Veynor, awesome car. Only 1.5 million!!
Mike.

[JEmirzian]

Mike,
I don't think we'll see those types of dentists here on Dental Lab Network. I would think they wouldn't want to spend the time.

As for your view on "Made in China"......I'm with you my friend. My wife and I just had a son and with all the recalls on China's toys, my father and I will be making a lot of things in the wood shop for the little guy to play with. I see nothing wrong with a nice wooden toy.....

One more thing I would like to interject is it's not only in the hands of the dentist to give quality work, but the technician as well. We all play a part in good dentistry and I think this web site is only going to connect all that are willing to push that extra mile.

[trisha]

I do not think that the dentists should have to tell the patient what they paid for a crown/appliance, etc. If the patient is wondering where they do their business, the dr should tell them, beyond that I don't think the patient should know the cost of the items. Like mzrdmd said people rarely take into account the over head that a dr. has to factor into their fees including LIABILITY!
As much as I don't want the competition to sqeeze me out of business, I believe that the dr should have the option to do business with who they wants. I think quality dr.s are going to stick with the labs they have established a good relationship with. There are drs. who are more concerned with quanity then quality, but thankfully there are also some great drs that pride themselves in the work they produce.

trisha

[Travis]

More labs are outsourcing because (correct me if I am wrong), there is a shortage of good technicians, and to keep the costs to a minimum (maintaining accounts) outsourcing makes the most sense. All of these mega labs that offer 50-100.00 crowns metal included are ruining this for the rest of us. If we ALL kept a higher fee for our services more people would become technicians. There is no reason why anybody would want a career in this business at the bench because there is no money to be made.


Its getting too expensive to live in this country.

[labdude]

Just heard last night on XM news of a dentist being sought for posting and challenging others to beat his 219 mph speed on a highway. He put up a picture somewhere of his speedo, now the authorities are interested.

To remain a little more on topic, I am considering placeing my entire price list for all to see.
This will upset many in various ways.
I work harder than anyone I've ever met. I finished at 3:00am last night(this morning?) and I'll get caught up on rest later. Sure I'm not starting till noon today. That will make it possible me to go till the sun comes up tomorrow. I could tell you, and I will tell you what ever you want, exactly what I use and how. That will not make you able to keep up or produce the same quality. It is within yourself to focus and produce and stop whinning about where you are, and strive to get where you want to be. Bitch about the unfairness of the world as you go, just don't slow down.
Mike.

[JEmirzian]

I'm with Mike....I'd be happy to post my price list as well.

[JEmirzian]

Trisha,
I do see your point about a doctor not disclosing the price he or she paid for a lab fee. I do feel it is necessary to at least tell the patient where it came from though....

[sixonice]

This link I attached is from December 5th. It aired in Buffalo NY on Channel 7 WKBW. It was created and funded by the United Lab Owners Association of Buffalo-Niagara. They have also contacted the local newspapers and got their story to the masses. The group consists of about 20 lab owners that meet once a month to discuss hot topics, new products etc. They went for a very balanced approach, more in the way of consumer awareness. Hopefully more lab groups will feel "inspired" to try this in their particular city?! Please take a look at the piece, I think you will be impressed.

How Safe Are Your Dentist's Products? | WKBW - TV Buffalo, New York | Local News

[Brian8]

I agree with JEmirzian, the the patient should know where the crown came from... but I have also heard of dentist telling the patient what there price is... plus whatever the lab fee comes to. I understand that way of charging especially with the gold market constantly going up.

Besides if I where to go into my Dr.'s office and have a crown done and he gave me an option to pay 29 for china's work or 300 for a US work I know I would pay that extra.

Brian

[trisha]

As stated in my intial reply:

If the patient is wondering where they do their business, the dr should tell them, beyond that I don't think the patient should know the cost of the items

I agree
trisha

[Brian8]

I agree with the patient not knowing the cost of the items. When people ask me what I do and I tell them, and most of them assumed that the dentist made the teeth.

I guess my question is should the Dr.'s charge a flat rate on there work and hope that the lab bill is less... or should the Dr.'s have a rate then charge whatever the bill from the lab comes to on top of that.

Brian

[JEmirzian]

Agreed.....

[labdude]

With this site open to anyone, how can the public not find out costs for things.
That's the point I have sort of been hinting at.
Who gets hurt by being educated?? Provided the education is true and complete as possible.

[Brian8]

Well before this site was open I'm sure if someone wanted to know prices all they really had to do was Google it. What has happened with this site opening was now it will be part of that Google search.

Brian

[Travis]

Wow I lost that argument. That news article is pretty interesting. Its a shame they didn't dig alittle deeper.

Originally Posted by sixonice

It was created and funded by the United Lab Owners Association of Buffalo-Niagara.

How did they create this association?

[JEmirzian]

You should post that in it's own thread.......Thanks