Made in China-Np PFM crown $29.00

[sixonice]

Originally Posted by Travis

Wow I lost that argument. That news article is pretty interesting. Its a shame they didn't dig alittle deeper.




How did they create this association?

This organization has been organization for 20+ years. Basically, many years back local labs that got along (when I say get along, I mean are "friendly" with each other, call for advice, chat on the phone etc.) decided they wanted to organize; have a group bonded together for "strength in numbers" to have a voice locally, to be recognized. They evolved the group with a elected President, Vice President, Secretary & Treasurer. They print newsletters and have monthly meetings. They also exhibit at local trade shows and conventions as a GROUP. The news spot that aired has defintely gotten some "legs". The media is an extremely powerful source of getting the information to the masses. I hope that helps with your question!

[clearH2O]

Can we start the Organization name THE DENTAL LAB NETWORK based on this got along ideas, sixonice?
I love it (:
and please do not forget clearH2O on THE GROUP.

Thanks

clearH2O

[mfstudzinski]

Funny I just spoke with a customer in Rochester NY today who told about a lab that closed because the doctors decided to send everything to China. It was a decent size operation, I believe she said 14 people got laid off because of it. She said she's holding her own though. That was good to hear. I think upstate NY has really taken a hit the last few years.

[elizzy]

Hi folks, this is my first post here. I don't think that the majority of import work costs the doc 29$. I don't think many of the importing labs tell the doc where the work comes from, charge more than 29$ and pocket the difference. whether the doc pockets the difference or the lab, i am pretty sure the patient doesn't realize the savings.
In the event of a product recall a patient should be able to trace his own device to origin of manufacture. Whether the patient is told directly or the information is in the patient record the patient should have access to the info.
elizzy

[sixonice]

Originally Posted by clearH2O

Can we start the Organization name THE DENTAL LAB NETWORK based on this got along ideas, sixonice?
I love it (:
and please do not forget clearH2O on THE GROUP.

Thanks

clearH2O

Sure you could! Really, anybody can organize anything they would want to provide strength in numbers, or a public "voice". This group in Buffalo has been together for many years. They are extremely well organized. Everyone is from the same area as well. Since the spot on WKBW (Channel 7) they lab association has also run (2) newspaper articles explaining to the public what is going on in our industry. Check it out: Tonawanda News - TONAWANDAS: Dental imports have local labs feeling a pinch Also check this article: Dentists join China debate - Business First of Buffalo:

[Travis]

Its great that the local media is making stories of this. I wonder if we could get them on here and help spread their word.

Joseph Procopio name is in every story. Good for him.

[sixonice]

Yeah, Joey Procopio is one of the more outgoing members. He has lost some good doctors to offshore, so he has a vested interest in doing what he can do to get this turned around. Bottom line is dental prosthetics are CUSTOM made, serious medical devices that get cemented in a patients skull. They need to be treated as such, with full patient disclosure (where the device was made) regulations, and respect. These are not a pair of sneakers or T-shirt we are talking about. Everything else the general public purchases can be traced to where it's country of origin is. Consumers make those decisions on their own. I feel if most of "Blue-collar" America had a choice of where their dental prosthetic was being fabricated (not to mention something they are spending lots of money on) they would choose the United States of America. Problem is they don't have a choice...........or a "say"......................

[clearH2O]

Hi Travis
Since I started this thread, many Dental Lab Network technicians response with several good feedbacks. I got one more idea to jointly buy a billboard to educate the patients of their right to know what and where their dental appliances are made. We are sure that 90% dental appliances receipient have no idea of where it's made or how it's made. I love to see those billboards light up at night near LAX Los Angeles CA and one on JFK of New York, the two major airports which would reach Americans.

Thanks

ClearH2O

[elizzy]

Clearwater thought you would find this interesting:
December 17, 2007 01:39 PM Eastern Time
National Association of Dental Laboratories to Be Featured in Public Television Documentary Educating Viewers about the Origin and Materials Used in Dental Restorations
TALLAHASSEE, Fla.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--The National Association of Dental Laboratories (NADL) and GTS Education Inc. announced today that “The Global Learning Series,” an education-focused television program distributed to public television, has invited NADL to be featured in an episode called “Understanding Dentistry.”

The program will educate viewers about a patient’s right to know where their dental restoration was manufactured and the credentials of the manufacturer. Nearly 25 percent of all dental restorations used by U.S. patients are made in foreign countries by dental technicians who likely lack recognized certifications. The show will be distributed this winter and spring to public television stations and cable television stations throughout the country as well as abroad through VOA Television.

“On behalf of ‘The Global Learning Series’, we applaud The National Association of Dental Laboratories for their leadership in formally asking the Food & Drug Administration to improve regulation of dental restorations to protect patient safety,” said John McGuire, Senior Producer of Programming for “The Global Learning Series.” “We’re pleased to partner with NADL to bring a visually and emotionally compelling program to the medical community, patient public and policymakers about this critical public health issue.”

About “The Global Learning Series”

“The Global Learning Series” is education-focused, issue-oriented programming produced independently by GTS Education Inc. and distributed to public television throughout the United States, and abroad through VOA Television. “The Global Learning Series” follows the strict standards and practices of public television. “The Global Learning Series” program is not affiliated with PBS. For program information about our educational documentaries, visit "http://www.thegloballearningseries.tv" or www.edumentaries.tv.

About The National Association of Dental Laboratories

The National Association of Dental Laboratories (NADL) is a federation of 43 state and regional commercial dental associations representing more than 1400 members. Its mission is to act as the unified voice of the dental laboratory industry supporting dentistry and serving the public interest through promoting high standards. NADL accomplishes this by providing programs, services and networking opportunities to meet the evolving technical, educational, professional and business needs of dental laboratories. For more information, please visit National Association of Dental Laboratories NADL - (800)950-1150.

[TheLabGuy]

Wow, 25% of the dental appliances are made outside the U.S.? That seems high, maybe not, maybe I got my head in the sand but that just seems unbelievable to me. Sure hope the NADL grows a pair and informs the public about this (personal opinion, I highly doubt the NADL will really tell the public the warnings of having their restoration made overseas).

[Chainedtothebench]

In 1979, when Lee Iacocca went to the congress to appeal to American people that Chrysler should be saved because it would help save American jobs from going overseas, he asked Americans to buy American. A reporter asserted, after touring a Chrylser factory, that Chrysler itself was using machinery and tools imported from Germany and Japan. Decades later, we don't care if Germans or Americans own Chrysler or even it exists! We are comfortable with our Honda Accord made in Ohio. We are also comfortable with eating Nestle cereals and Yoplait yogurt, taking Bayer aspirin with Evian water, sprinkling Chinese garlic and Canadian cheese on our Italian spaghetti, or playing PS3 games on our LG TV. While we import 80% of orange juice we consume, our farmers also feed more than 1/3 of world population. Folks, we live in an interconnected, capitalist world. If the Chinese figure out how to sell $29 crowns and still turn a profit, we ought to let them specialize in it and find something else we do better. If you decide to publish your prices, that's your right, too. We have good and bad dentists, dental labs, and dental technicians. So are China and any other countries. If you really like to keep jobs in America, please stop using Ivoclar (Leichtenstein), Vita (Germany), Dentsply (British roots), Shofu (Japan) or Procera (Switzeland). Of by the way, please walk to work tomorrow because your car is fueld by Saudi oil.
I think the argument is not whether we should boycott Chinese crowns. The real questions is how do we position ourselves so that when the cheap, quality Chinese crowns show up in the marketplace, I can still survive and succeed. That's the question of concern, not whether we should educate the patients how much dentists are charging them.

[TheLabGuy]

I'll give you that competition and the free market place is good for everyone. What I think you failed to address is the last posts were about was what was in the materials that those crowns that come from overseas. Doesn't a patient have a right to know what his crown is made out of? Now trust me, I'm not bashing on the overseas labs, most of them use the same materials we use, however, if their is just one lab that doesn't, I bet you wouldn't want that dental appliance going into your significant other's mouth? Once again, I agree, BUY AMERICAN, but on the flip side, know what your getting from overseas and as for saudi oil, I'm in Kansas brother, we make ethanol here..............lol

[Chainedtothebench]

I am all for clear labeling and certification of dental labs. However, I think the requirements are going to hurt more American labs (who are small) than foreign labs who tend to be large and can absorb the costs. I am worried that smaller labs may not be able to survive this wave of increased regulations.
Likfe software jobs going overseas, our dental technicians jobs are going to evaporate. Smart techies can transform themselves into "project coordinators" and learn to work more on the business side than technical side. They still need to upgrade their skills but if they make money by working longer hours, I don't know how they are going to provide for the family. While software engineers have learned to coordinate projects in various parts of the world, what have our technicians been preparing? We need to do something so they can stay in the middle class till retirement.
BTW, Kansas is the headquarters of the largest shoe store chain in the world whose shoes, a little less than 300 million pairs of them, were made 100% (or very close to it) overseas.
John
AsiaNetworks | Dental Tour | China Business | First taste of China

[clearH2O]

Originally Posted by Chainedtothebench

I am all for clear labeling and certification of dental labs. However, I think the requirements are going to hurt more American labs (who are small) than foreign labs who tend to be large and can absorb the costs. I am worried that smaller labs may not be able to survive this wave of increased regulations.
Likfe software jobs going overseas, our dental technicians jobs are going to evaporate. Smart techies can transform themselves into "project coordinators" and learn to work more on the business side than technical side. They still need to upgrade their skills but if they make money by working longer hours, I don't know how they are going to provide for the family. While software engineers have learned to coordinate projects in various parts of the world, what have our technicians been preparing? We need to do something so they can stay in the middle class till retirement.
BTW, Kansas is the headquarters of the largest shoe store chain in the world whose shoes, a little less than 300 million pairs of them, were made 100% (or very close to it) overseas.
John
AsiaNetworks | Dental Tour | China Business | First taste of China

Dear everyone
To be straight forward I hope this Dental Lab Net Work won't become a free ad-space for commercial interest. We should stick to the thread Made in China NP-PFM crown $29.00. Some dental "techies" dislike their profession so much they decide to outsource and become businessmen. These "techies" should label themself as businessman or trader but not technicians. When a businessman or trader send their USA labeled work overseas charge USA standard prices and did not tell their "patients" recipient where it's made it violates the ethical code of a good bussinessman or trader and they may get sued for cheating.
Remember made in China products have killed and made people sick around the world because of the dangerous quality (high traces of lead in childrens toys? toxic chemical in toothpaste? how do we know that there aren't toxic materials in the outsourced dental appliances). I do not know how much money these traders or businessmen are willing to paid to give back their victim' life.

[renoskidoc]

I'm new to this forum, and haven't read every reply to the original topic, and I might be repeating some things someone else has said, however, I think it's dangerous for patients to know what we (DDS's) pay for labwork. Patients always think our fees are too high because they have no concept of the cost of running a practice. I often have to justify my fees to my staff, at least the treatment coordinator, who doesn't see what my bookkeeper sees paying the bills. It takes too much time away from the clinical practice of dentistry if I or another staff member has to explain to patients the business side of dentistry. I hope all of you reading this, and being in the business of dentistry one way or another, realize that we're not making HUGE PROFITS as one email I recently read stated, by using foreign labs. I recently had 2 crowns made in a Phillipine lab. The cost per unit was well over $100 each, but less than my local lab that charges about $195-230.
This was a lab recommended by the Heartland Dental Clinics in DentalTown mag last fall, so I decided to give them a try. (I haven't decided if I will continue to send them other cases. I was just evaluating the procedure, quality and cost with these 2 crowns.) The major PPO in my area (~80% market share) discounts C & B fees about 38%. Since my overhead for 2006 was 70%, I'm losing money on every unit. I've got to find a way to reduce my costs to remain profitable. You can only work so fast and staff always want higher wages and other benefits, so cutting the cost of labwork is one way to help. We give away exams and cleanings because if we charged what they really cost to provide, no one would come in except for toothaches and other emergencies. I do comprehensive exams taking 1 1/2 hours. I need to produce $650/hr, so that exam should cost $975, but we only charge $238 UCR and the PPO reduces even that to $166. The difference has to be made up somewhere and that used to be crowns, bridges, dentures, etc. Fillings are about break-even in most cases. So I hope this information is helpful in putting costs and fees into perspective. Sorry this thread has gotten so long, but seeing the big picture is important in order to understand the pressures dentists feel trying to stay profitable.

[alquir]

Internet is guilty about that, and global economy, competition, is the key word, and you have to be ready for that, the comlpaint is not enougth, in global economy everyone has a chance, for all over the wide world