8 Venners Over Discolored Teeth

[CRWNMKR]

Al , is the dusting to refract light? And what pressing oven do you use? thx, dennis

[Clear Precision Dental]

Al, that is BEAUTIFUL, even at crazy magnification !!! I can't wait to see more !!!

[Al.]

Al , is the dusting to refract light? And what pressing oven do you use? thx, dennis

Hey Dennis, I use the ep 600 combi, but they have new furnaces now.

The dusting is my wash bake or bond, I use the deep dentin for HO or MO cores. DD is a more intense shade and helps put a little color on.
I dont do it for LT.

It probably does help refract light away from the coping because it is not a even smooth coat and it is darker than what I layered with and the lighter particles will sit inbetween the darker particles.

[Al.]

Al, that is BEAUTIFUL, even at crazy magnification !!! I can't wait to see more !!!

Thanks Clear, Im doing it peice mill because I have to up load pics to photobucket then down load here. Its easy to do a little at a time in between work but too much time to sit down and do all at once.

[TheLabGuy]

Wow.........
That is what separates you from the rest......
The internal staining is going to turn out beautiful on this.
You ever get that feeling that a case is going to turn out great?

and you got them to press as well, very nice. How is that autodevester working out, do you use it for everything, worth the investment?

[sirmorty]

Al.

I have couple of questions, if you dont mind:

What temp. do you fire your washbake at?

How do you do your dusting technique? I have never really seen anything like that. Seems pretty clever.

thanks

[Al.]

Hey sir,
Its the same temp as the layering porc.

Its easy, dampen the coping making sure no liquid goes underneith.
Dip a medium sized dry brush into your bottle of porc then hold your coping over the bottle and tap the brush. Do it at different angles till you cover all the areas you want then blow off the excess, then the inside just in case.

Some people do it on the opaque of pfms using shoulder porc.

Rob, It was worth it for me. If a person presses 10 or more rings a month it saves from having to spend all that time sectioning the end of the ring then hunching over the sandblaster.
You cant stray too far from it for long though because it takes about 4 min per small ring and you need to be there take it out and put in another ring.

[Al.]

These are true venners, not 3/4 crowns. And only a couple are wrapped interproximal.

Has anybody ever layered porc on little porc chips.
Its almost impossible.

There is no retention and they move all over the place. You lay porc on them with a brush or a spatula like I use and they stick to your brush.

If the underlying tooth in not discolored or you have excess room you can leave your contacts in the pressed material and only layer the incisal.
They dont move as much that way.

Tip: Take a pin point peice of dead soft, tacky wax and put it on the center of the die.
When you press you venner on the die it sticks, you can turn it up side down or build to it and it wont move. Sometimes they stick too well and it can take a spot of die spacer off when you remove them.

I use the tip of a sharp instrument and pop them off on to my towel, and wipe out the inside of the venner with my damp brush before I fire it.

Now I do a body build. I keep it light I just want to cover the venner and see if the coping is masked.
Build them to correct contour minus the incisal.

I never over build!!!! I hate grinding and I would rather spend the day listening to my exwife bitch than grind and contour and adjust contacts on tiny little chips of porc.

It is so much easier to build exact and do extra bakes for small addons than to grind.
You have 9 contacts on 8 venners if one is off the slightest bit they will all be off.

I used a BL3 body porc.

[TheLabGuy]

At this stage is where most folks would do their internal staining (stain in their mammelons with some salmon, a little white and blue). I'm curious to see how noticeable your way is when you're done. Keep it coming, great stuff. In addition, I see you build up a cut back per say, but do you go and refine that cut back as well, before the incisal layer, any extra staining as well?

[Al.]

Its not going to be very noticable. Its a bleach shade and not alot of room because he is already flared out on his incisal edge. Alot of the space is used to mask.

The wider stains are crackliner, it is just slightly darker than vanilla. It blends in well.
White can be overdone easy. I have had to grind plenty out. They are the fine lines. I use a sharp instrument to apply them.

[Al.]

Ok, here is the build up.
Body BL3, Trans incisal 1, with some fingers of OE1 mixed in.

Ill post the finals tomorrow.

[Al.]

Ok, here is what we started out with. Old composites over very dark teeth.





The technique I posted is the best I know of to cover discolored teeth when venners are prescribed.

Here they are glazed and ready to go out the door. They should be seated next week.

I am posting several pics at different angles for the different arrrangement, light reflection, texture and contours.

I think the case come out decent. But now that I see it after it is gone I did not close all the interproximal spaces at the papilla.

I increased the height of contour to give more lip support and help take away from that flared or buck toothed look.

[charles007]

Al, very nice Natural looking veneers........

Love the way you opened up the incisal embrasers so much........its a dead give away when anteriors embrasers are closed, which gives a square, boxee -crown looking crown or veneers.
Cuspids are down right beautiful also... its the hardest tooth to contour and look natural.........
The anatomy- and surface anatomy, alone with the rounding kept these veneers from being very wide and flat..........

I'M NOT SURE IF ALL TECHNICIANS EVEN REALIZE HOW HARD THIS CASE WAS TO CREATE .

This case could have been a disaster, with the very wide - flat teeth, then Al turns it into a master piece work of art.


Grading on a Obama curve.........I will give you a A++++

Done good Country Boy

[v2thmaster]

Al, Great job! How do you achieve such a nice glaze? I'm puling my hair out when I'm glazing...I hand polish every unit with diamond paste. What glaze and stain do you use on your e.max?

[charles007]

Al,
what is the average thickness of these veneers.......

[TheLabGuy]

Al,
Like Charles eluded too, very nice incisal embrasures, especially the cuspid, very manly. I would of totally thought that the crackliner would of been too bright and would have bled through too much, but it really highlighted your incisal. Great texture, Gorgeous, as always..........To be real nit picky, the only thing I may have done different isn't put the external stain line (crack) on the labials....Not sure, tough to tell how noticeable it is in a picture versus clinically, looking forward to the post op pics. THANK YOU FOR SHARING!!!!!!!

Vadim, This is e.max MO (complete porcelain coverage, not fully pressed like your monolithic LT/HT) hence why you may be having trouble.

[Al.]

Charles they ended being between .7 in the thinnest to 1.2 in the thickest areas.

V if you are having trouble with your glaze it is probably not fired at a high enough temp.

The manual calls for a lower temp than what I use. I bake at 1410 F, when I go lower I lose clarity or start getting tiny bubbles that take away the trans,
For glaze I go to 1390 F.

For anteriors after the paint on glaze I hit the highlignts with a rubber wheel then buff it with diamond paste. If not under the macro lens it looks really grainy compared to most teeth which are highly polished, but often times it is a mate finish not high gloss.

I always have struggled with incisal edges. Anterior crowns often come out too rounded on the edges where the natural teeth are sharper from ware.
Especially on the incisal embrasures. Sometimes you just touch it with a stone and it takes off too much.

Ive been using a rubber wheel to finish the edges, it keeps them sharp and dosent take off too much.

[JohnWilson]

Al this is spectacular work. That is easily a $350 unit!

Post this case compete at this site. IPS e.max Lithium Disilicate | Cases | Ivoclar Vivadent

Then sit back raise your prices and enjoy life your talent deserves it!

Good luck,
John

[thewhitelab]

Hi Al,

As has already been said lovely work! which ingot may i ask did you use for the lateral incisor? blends beautifully

Adam

[Al.]

Adam, I got so lucky with that. I got it on the first try.

I checked the shade and took pics but I just couldnt choose a shade.

I was first looking for a base shade that came close and at first it looked like a bleach shade.

I #1 use the ivoclar shade guides, Starting with the LT ingot shade guide.

When he laid his head back inside or under the enamel the C2 Lt shade was a perfect match but all the enamel coloring really threw it off.

I was afraid if I used C2 though it may come out too grey. B2 is the ingot of choice often for C2 if the prep is dark. It almost takes nothing to turn a B2 into a C2. It greys easy so I used a B2 LT to keep the value from getting too low from the inside out.

I did a normal cut back but mabey a little heaver on the M & D line angles because he had some heavy blueish tran there.

I stained the coping a little to break it up. Then fired the incisal. I put OE1 on the M & D line angles and a little on the edge then used Inc 2 over the rest and fired.
Then I used a whiter incisal either OE3 or 4 and added that over the center of the facial to try to get that white frosting.
Then I added some surface stain to match the adjacent teeth.

It was really an easy crown to make.

Here is the lingual so you can see the cutback and the full shot.

I think the gin 1/3 is a little too thick I could have flattened it a bit.