Soldering

[trisha]

I have been making a retainer with a soldered C clasp on 4's to the labial bow.
I would like to explain my process and have anyone tell me how they do it if it is any different. I am trying to figure out if anyone uses heat shield or not?
I create the labial bow, adapt a wire into a C clasp to hug the 1st bicuspid. Line them up on the model add flux and solder. I have a dr. that has thinks that I might be over heating the wire and making it weak. The one he has send back is 1 year old. I am trying to figure out if this is due to fatique or lack of compliance. When I solder I make sure to not over heat wire, if it turns red you have to start all over, been doing this for about 5 years now and all of the sudden this is happening with this one dr. I am by no means insinuating that I am not falable. But I am curious if any of you go about soldering wires any differently or protect your wire with heat shield.
Your input would be greatly appreciated,
trisha

[labdude]

Hi Trisha,
Now that's a fun time ain't it???
I just love it when one dr figures your doing something incorrect. I make these type of clasps quite often as well. I have one guy that thinks sometimes they fail to often. Like yours, the appliances are a year old or older. Your method is just fine. Continue to communicate with the dr that your doing things in an unchanged manner. You haven't changed solder or torch technique or flux etc.
Remakes sometimes don't only seem to come from one office, they do. That seems to happen in cycles with various offices. Your cruiseing along fine, then, one office (take your pick) starts having some problem or other. I don't mean to minimize the problems, they are real. Just sometimes, you have to deal with them, focus on them, they will go away. (the problem, not the dr.)
Years ago I stopped chargeing for any repair work what so ever. Today I got a call from a women, her son lost his retainer. She used to work for a dr I work for now. The retainer was a few years old, her son left it behind in a restaurant. Gone. She works for another dr out on the coast of Oregon now. She was surprised to here she could send a model to me, with that drs pres., and there would be no charge.
Remakes and repairs are few compared to the amount of retainers I make. Sometimes it seems like repairs and remakes come in batches. I have never been able to put a definet cuase on it. I just find that it's easier and quicker to just fix the darn things and move on, no charge. No charge has been great P R since I decided to go that route years ago.
This guy your dealing with, I hope it goes well for you, pain in the butt it is.
It will pass, your work is great, you've posted some pics here.
Mike.

[partyteeth]

Hi Trisha--just had to give you some input on soldering-we use HeatShield on all surrounding wires, acrylic, etc. Also, the best and cheapest place to buy the HeatShield is from a local jewler's supply. It costs about a third of what you'd pay through a dental supply. Also, leave a very slight amt. of space between the tooth and the c clasp so the solder flows around the entire joint. Every so often--usually during a full moon--we'll get one back to be re-soldered, and like Mike, we'll do it free of charge-good p.r. Keep up your good work-I saw the pictures, too!-------------cathyz.

[trisha]

Thanks Labdude and Party Teeth for your input and encouragement, much appreciated!
I am now using heat shield when making an appliance for this doctor. He seems to be happy that I have made this change. Bottom line if he's happy I am happy.
I am greatful to have this forum to bounce ideas and comments off of with other folks as crazy about bending wires as I am.
trisha

[RetainerDesigner]

Trisha,
I use Heatshield too, on everything that doesnt have flux. Mainly because im crazy with the torch!. But sometime the torch goes sporadic or goes out, i guess because I use too much heat shield and the fumes released (from heating the heatshield) are interfering with the oxygen/ fuel mixture of the torch. Oh well, I just heat from a different angle.

I use a hand held butane mini torch, like one you use for cooking. What does everyone else use?
I dream of getting a hydro torch in the future.

Cade

[labdude]

Here's that torch Cade. You get to the AAO anyhow????

SRA H2O Welder

[RetainerDesigner]

Bookmarked!!!!!!!!
That one is sweet, looks a lot more advances than the one Wehmer offers. love that pin point flame, I bet that would solve the issue of heat shield for all of us!

[labdude]

Cade,
You might want to consider the oxygen acetylene set up. The torches are available through jewelry supply and welding supply, for less than what you would pay through a dental supply.
These torches burn hotter than butane or propane with oxygen.
I use a #3 tip, just my favorite all around size. Flame is very small, allowing for less use of heat sheild. I just did a repair thursday( not originaly made by me, but no charge) and didn't use heat shield. It was a labial bow soldered to adams clasps. Clasps are in acrylic, no burn to the acrylic at all. Takes practice, but very easy and quick. The high heat takes a couple of days to get used to, as well as the small flame. Finding the sweet spot isn't to hard. Just practice. When rs promotions came up to the lab, I did some soldering on a Herbst. They remarked on how small the flame was.
Thing is, it's less expensive than hydrogen torch, a lot less. And will perform excellent.
I think about getting a hydrogen torch just for the joy of having one. Not for improvement in work quality or speed. Kind of like I would like a laser welder as well. Just that hydrogen welder costs 1200, laser around 4000. There is a point where it just becomes a song and dance investment. Oxy Acet works quick and easy, for far less cost.
But it sounds high tech to prospective clients to be able to say "I use a hydrogen torch, and sometimes a laser welder".
Try the oxy acet set up, if you don't like it, some one will buy it from you.
Mike.

[RetainerDesigner]

I awlys thought of the acyl/oxygen setup as cumbersome looking and expensive to boot. I will check out the jewelery supply companies. They were just too expensive in GL's catalog and again they looked like a lot to them. But I guess once you get it set up it is pretty easy to use. The lab I worked for in San Antonio had a Hydro one and I really liked it, it was hard to go back to the hand held butane torch. Thanks for the recommendation.

[labdude]

You do have 2 tanks to place somewhere close to where you sloder. I use tanks that are larger than what you see GL offer. They are about 36" tall, maybe a little less. Means you need to refill less. I refill less than twice a year. The tanks I have last close enough to a year it seems like I fill them only 1 time a year, for less than $40.00!!!
You have to "buy in" to the tanks generally. That means, you own that tank, and when it's empty, you take it to the welding supply and trade it for a full one.
The cost for a refill last time for me was less than $20.00 for Acetylene, and less than $18.00 for Oxygen. My cost for 5 oz. of flux is $5.00. The cost for silver solder (on 4/11/08) was $79.85 for 1 troy oz.
After I purchased my first 2 tanks ( 1 oxy,1 acet.) I found it worth while to buy a 2nd set of tanks and always have a full set on hand. That way you don't have to jump up to go get gasses at a busy moment.
Cade..listen up dude.....with these costs, and yours in Texas being close I'm sure, what are you waiting for???
The flame is smaller, hotter, and more manageable than butane. Not to mention a whole lot less expensive. "Buy in" is the main cost. You will regain your output quickly in the expense area, and the time you will save using this smaller hotter flame will put more of your income into your pocket and less into buying butane and soldering at a snails pace costing you time....lots of time.
Like I said before, if you for some reason don't like it, these set ups are easy to sell in the newspaper.
Also, you try it and dont' like it, I'll buy the torch from you for exactly what you paid for it.
Time to run Cade,
Mike.
edit: true water to run a H2O torch is cheap, but the cost to purchase one is about 3 times that of Oxy Acet. Up keep and repair can also be higher for an H2O torch.

[RetainerDesigner]

were did you purchase your torch and #3 tip from? There is a welding supply company close to my lab.

[labdude]

When you buy the torch, it comes with tips. #3 is in there. I get replacements from JBC.
Check in the phone book for jewlery supply also. They have the torches as well. Last time I got one it cost about $120.00.
You know, Trisha uses a torch with propane and oxygen. Nice and hot as well. Some guys use natural gas and oxygen also.(Travis)
Keep cruising Cade, have a good day,
Mike.