hmmm Bands

Smilewire · 07-03-2009, 12:31 AM

I just got a new account that doesnt have assistants do anything like pour models or fit bands. All his impressions are polyvinyl ($) anyways he wants me to set bands(my bands)...
Sooo Im going to order bands.. My question is WTF? theres so much out there
Im overstimulated!!!
Perscription type??
Slot size??
Theres so many perscription types? Roth, Lewis..etc
I know I'm going to order .022 slot size .per new school
and a selection between #13-26 sizes
ANY suggestions???

I saw some on ebay but there all .018 slot size and from the photos they look like #30-45 sizes egads! looks like a collection of the unusables......

labdude · 07-03-2009, 09:40 AM

A little strange, but not to strange.
I'll fit SS crowns for Herbst, bands for a space maintainer. Rare for me to do a space maintainer however.
Sounds like this client wants you to seat bands with brackets. If so, he should be letting you know what he wants to use, type and size, as well as manufacturer.
Sounds like he is a GP??? Maybe???
If he is, it will be extra work for you to service him. Usually is for a GP.
Been to a PCSO 1 day to exhibit your work??? Bay area has them.
Mike.

the lab lady · 07-03-2009, 09:59 AM

i won't oreder bands- it gets too expensive will all the various sizes you will need.
i give a couple of choices. they can send a band along and i will seat it in the impression, i can pour and prep the model and return it so they can seat a band on the model, or i will send it to another local lab to process for me.

however if you do decide to order bands, you probably will not need a slot size just the band if it is for quads, hyrax, tpa, nance, band & loop, or lla.but like mike said the dr. can direct you if he has something specific in mind...but the best is if you can use a band from hnis stock!
good luck!

trisha · 07-03-2009, 11:40 PM

I would also ask the dr to give me an idea of what type of band they are wanting. Like Labdude said it sounds like it might be a GP you are doing the work for. For me this has always been a lot more work for little reward??

just my 2 cents ( this new fangled computer does not even have a cents symbol)

Smilewire · 07-04-2009, 07:21 PM

Not a GP Hes a fresh Orthodontist just been in practice for 1 year... He doesnt want his assistants doing any lab work??? I know theres LOTS of down time in a new practice especially, so I dunno.. Yeah I'II make sure to ask him if he'll ever need headgear tubes and what type he uses and I'II just order a couple to solder on.

Lab Lady just curious how much does the other lab charge you to process, I know other places usually charge 7.50 to seat a band in a model I don't know what they charge for the band though.

BTW I LOVE my GP accounts, however I rarely do ortho for them. I make just as many Talon splints and Thermoformed trutains/Bleachtray/nightguards as I do in my reg. Ortho work, but they are almost half of my income...am I weird ;P

labdude · 07-04-2009, 08:09 PM

Hi smile,
I "grew up" different in L.A.
Started in an ortho lab, never did anyhting else. The supply of Orthodontists down there meant that I never worked for a GP.
Especially because of the PCSO meetings. And later the AAO meetings.
I set up my lab before I had any business at all.
Then attended a PCSO in L.A. at the Hilton to obtain some clients. That is the only way I ever obtained clients, AND, no GPS attend those meetings, or very very few if ever.
Got 4 clients on the first meeting.

Blah Blah Blah on and on and on.....
Mike.

Smilewire · 07-05-2009, 12:00 PM

Wow LabDude yup "different" than me I was working out of 2 contracted labs when I started and I STILL have not completely finished my lab at home which sucks because Im taking work with me everywhere to do different things, which sucks! But I can't say NO to new work and thus I shouldn't BUT I really need to get the model grinder setup in my lab!b4 that the sink has to be put in and the list goes on and on! EKKK
Wow those Pcso meeting sound great! and psst don't tell anyone....
Theres very few labs in this HUGE populous! so maybe when i get my sheeot together I can expand. But for now I welcome the band issue because it only challenges me to do different things and forces me to learn!

labdude · 07-05-2009, 12:30 PM

Here's a model trimmer set up we used way back then.
Model trimmer upgrades etc.

Notes: Model trimmer is mounted on a sediment tray, bottom drain of model trimmer is open with no fittings at all. Drains directly into sediment tray.
Sediment tray has largest fitting possible to pass throughwhere its drain is. From that, we attached 1 1/2 inch pipe, cut in half, to make a sluice type channel out of that pipe.
What this does is......at the trimmer, if it clogs, you can reach behind and underneath to its drain and clean out the chips with your finger. Instant clean out. Then you can also easly clen out the rest of the drain system as it is wide open.
In the sink we placed drain tubing so that the water would almost fill the sink, before going down the drain. This would catch the sediment and we could siphon that off, take it out side, let it dry and get solid enough to toss in the trash.

labdude · 07-05-2009, 12:34 PM

About the # of labs in the bay area. Must be like you say, just a few.
I've got 3 shipping to me from there.
Michelle, you reading this???
Smilewire, there in reality, plenty for the 3 of us in your area.
A little tighter "focus" on what you manufacture, will increase your profits for time spent. Do things the way you like, but, I told you so, .....ahead of time.
Mike.

the lab lady · 07-05-2009, 07:20 PM

yeah mike, i'm reading-
elaborate please...what do you mean by "tighter focus on what we manufacture" ?
about the labs in the area- i'm in the north bay (santa rosa) and there are three labs in my town alone.
anyways- do share your wisdom- i don't know how long smilewire has been at this, but i've only been on my own for a little over two years.

labdude · 07-05-2009, 09:27 PM

Tighter for smilewire.
Spending time trying to provide correct bands MAYBE time consuming without a good return for the time spent.
Lots of reasons for that. How many clients don't have bands??? Not many if any. When I do Herbst, I offer SS crowns. I may soon stock the double thickness bands, that depends on a certain client and how well things go doing the Herbst for him. He likes to use bands, not crowns, but, he can't maintain a supply of bands!!?? Where he used to send his Herbst, his staff always did supply them, now it's a problem???......I could go on....

For some of us, not all, but maybe really most of us, focus on a certain area of tech work,ie, ortho, porcelain, removables, etc, as far as I have seen, is more profitable. AND the lab that specializes, will make a better applinace for their focused area. Those labs that spend time making a removable, then change over when finished with that appliance, and finish their day making a porcelain crown.
That type of thing is very unproductive for a small lab.(1 man lab)
A 2 man (oops...person...) where 1 does removable only, and the other does the porcelian will be the winners.
Now those couple of thoughts in with a guy (person) who sets up a removable lab, then hires a porcelain person to expand. Problem there is, how does the person know they have a GOOD porcelain person?? When they are great at removables, and not done porcelain in a larger way, like they do removables.
Easier to focus on an area of the field, build that, IMHO.
Mike. and enjoy the spacey game Michelle!

labdude · 07-05-2009, 09:29 PM

As for the # of labs in the area from say, where you are, down to Salinas, smilewire may not really know the #s. Extend that out to Sacramento also.

Smilewire · 07-06-2009, 12:23 PM

[quote=labdude;11911]Tighter for smilewire.
Spending time trying to provide correct bands MAYBE time consuming without a good return for the time spent.
Lots of reasons for that. How many clients don't have bands??? Not many if any. When I do Herbst, I offer SS crowns. I may soon stock the double thickness bands, that depends on a certain client and how well things go doing the Herbst for him. He likes to use bands, not crowns, but, he can't maintain a supply of bands!!?? Where he used to send his Herbst, his staff always did supply them, now it's a problem???......I could go on....
QUOTE]

Yeah I KNOW that the assistants and doctors hate removing those sscrowns
I think it may be going the way of bands... I remember I use to make ACRYLIC herbst!!! They always broke so we stopped

Smilewire · 07-06-2009, 12:26 PM

Well a local lab charges 198.00 for there Talon Splints! I don't charge that much, so I get a lot of those. They are very profitable, but I'd go insane only making those!

ok gotta go, I have a 2 hour retainer rush!
Bye

labdude · 07-06-2009, 12:45 PM

Herbst have been "troublesome". Still can be strange.
Most of them I see these days are on SS crowns. Design and components change alot with these things. From use of bands, to crowns, to casting. As well as a lab that can afford to invest in the manufactureing side. Then what happens is exclusive appliances that no one else can get the parts for, and the parts are not interchangeable due to thread size. They alter this slightly, then you can't match anything. Some "types" out there now are interchangeable, doesn't seem like many though.
Thing that works and is most popular right now.....SS crowns and Hanks mechanism. Available through Specality Appliances. Crowns from OSE.
Also, Specialty has a nut that has a "cap" laser welded over the back side, makes it real easy to solder. These Hanks with those type nuts cost about $85.00. This type of Herbst can be assembled and polished in about an hour, and are a favorite for my clients.

labdude · 07-07-2009, 01:41 PM

Simplification of the elaboration asked for by Michelle....
Great Lakes Orthodontics....send them a PFM....see what happens.
They seem to be "focused", it might be working.

Smilewire · 07-08-2009, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by labdude

Simplification of the elaboration asked for by Michelle....
Great Lakes Orthodontics....send them a PFM....see what happens.
They seem to be "focused", it might be working.

just to elaborate more PFM=Porcelain Faced Metal crown..

I remember when I was going to dental tech school and someone asked me what area I wanted to concentrate on and I replied everything I'm going to do everything crowns, dentures, ortho! No wonder the guy looked at me like I was crazy! Haha I obviously had never worked in a lab before.. I did however start working at a Ortho lab while in school so thats why I guess I went with Orthodontics!

Im am soooooooo slow this week! btw

07-03-2009, 12:31 AM	#1 (permalink)
Smilewire Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Bay Area Posts: 196 Rep Power: 2	hmmm Bands I just got a new account that doesnt have assistants do anything like pour models or fit bands. All his impressions are polyvinyl ($) anyways he wants me to set bands(my bands)... Sooo Im going to order bands.. My question is WTF? theres so much out there Im overstimulated!!! Perscription type?? Slot size?? Theres so many perscription types? Roth, Lewis..etc I know I'm going to order .022 slot size .per new school and a selection between #13-26 sizes ANY suggestions??? I saw some on ebay but there all .018 slot size and from the photos they look like #30-45 sizes egads! looks like a collection of the unusables......

07-03-2009, 09:59 AM	#3 (permalink)
the lab lady Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: sunny California Age: 42 Posts: 110 Rep Power: 2	i won't oreder bands- it gets too expensive will all the various sizes you will need. i give a couple of choices. they can send a band along and i will seat it in the impression, i can pour and prep the model and return it so they can seat a band on the model, or i will send it to another local lab to process for me. however if you do decide to order bands, you probably will not need a slot size just the band if it is for quads, hyrax, tpa, nance, band & loop, or lla.but like mike said the dr. can direct you if he has something specific in mind...but the best is if you can use a band from hnis stock! good luck! __________________ michelle www.thelablady.com

07-05-2009, 07:20 PM	#10 (permalink)
the lab lady Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: sunny California Age: 42 Posts: 110 Rep Power: 2	yeah mike, i'm reading- elaborate please...what do you mean by "tighter focus on what we manufacture" ? about the labs in the area- i'm in the north bay (santa rosa) and there are three labs in my town alone. anyways- do share your wisdom- i don't know how long smilewire has been at this, but i've only been on my own for a little over two years. __________________ michelle www.thelablady.com

07-06-2009, 12:26 PM	#14 (permalink)
Smilewire Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Bay Area Posts: 196 Rep Power: 2	Well a local lab charges 198.00 for there Talon Splints! I don't charge that much, so I get a lot of those. They are very profitable, but I'd go insane only making those! ok gotta go, I have a 2 hour retainer rush! Bye Last edited by Smilewire : 07-06-2009 at 12:26 PM. Reason: sp

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07-03-2009, 09:40 AM	#2 (permalink)
labdude Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1971 Rep Power: 4	A little strange, but not to strange. I'll fit SS crowns for Herbst, bands for a space maintainer. Rare for me to do a space maintainer however. Sounds like this client wants you to seat bands with brackets. If so, he should be letting you know what he wants to use, type and size, as well as manufacturer. Sounds like he is a GP??? Maybe??? If he is, it will be extra work for you to service him. Usually is for a GP. Been to a PCSO 1 day to exhibit your work??? Bay area has them. Mike.

07-03-2009, 11:40 PM	#4 (permalink)
trisha Supporter Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Kansas City Missouri Age: 45 Posts: 411 Rep Power: 3	I would also ask the dr to give me an idea of what type of band they are wanting. Like Labdude said it sounds like it might be a GP you are doing the work for. For me this has always been a lot more work for little reward?? just my 2 cents ( this new fangled computer does not even have a cents symbol)

07-04-2009, 07:21 PM	#5 (permalink)
Smilewire Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Bay Area Posts: 196 Rep Power: 2	Not a GP Hes a fresh Orthodontist just been in practice for 1 year... He doesnt want his assistants doing any lab work??? I know theres LOTS of down time in a new practice especially, so I dunno.. Yeah I'II make sure to ask him if he'll ever need headgear tubes and what type he uses and I'II just order a couple to solder on. Lab Lady just curious how much does the other lab charge you to process, I know other places usually charge 7.50 to seat a band in a model I don't know what they charge for the band though. BTW I LOVE my GP accounts, however I rarely do ortho for them. I make just as many Talon splints and Thermoformed trutains/Bleachtray/nightguards as I do in my reg. Ortho work, but they are almost half of my income...am I weird ;P

07-04-2009, 08:09 PM	#6 (permalink)
labdude Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1971 Rep Power: 4	Hi smile, I "grew up" different in L.A. Started in an ortho lab, never did anyhting else. The supply of Orthodontists down there meant that I never worked for a GP. Especially because of the PCSO meetings. And later the AAO meetings. I set up my lab before I had any business at all. Then attended a PCSO in L.A. at the Hilton to obtain some clients. That is the only way I ever obtained clients, AND, no GPS attend those meetings, or very very few if ever. Got 4 clients on the first meeting. Blah Blah Blah on and on and on..... Mike.

07-05-2009, 12:00 PM	#7 (permalink)
Smilewire Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Bay Area Posts: 196 Rep Power: 2	Wow LabDude yup "different" than me I was working out of 2 contracted labs when I started and I STILL have not completely finished my lab at home which sucks because Im taking work with me everywhere to do different things, which sucks! But I can't say NO to new work and thus I shouldn't BUT I really need to get the model grinder setup in my lab!b4 that the sink has to be put in and the list goes on and on! EKKK Wow those Pcso meeting sound great! and psst don't tell anyone.... Theres very few labs in this HUGE populous! so maybe when i get my sheeot together I can expand. But for now I welcome the band issue because it only challenges me to do different things and forces me to learn!

07-05-2009, 12:30 PM	#8 (permalink)
labdude Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1971 Rep Power: 4	Here's a model trimmer set up we used way back then. Model trimmer upgrades etc. Notes: Model trimmer is mounted on a sediment tray, bottom drain of model trimmer is open with no fittings at all. Drains directly into sediment tray. Sediment tray has largest fitting possible to pass throughwhere its drain is. From that, we attached 1 1/2 inch pipe, cut in half, to make a sluice type channel out of that pipe. What this does is......at the trimmer, if it clogs, you can reach behind and underneath to its drain and clean out the chips with your finger. Instant clean out. Then you can also easly clen out the rest of the drain system as it is wide open. In the sink we placed drain tubing so that the water would almost fill the sink, before going down the drain. This would catch the sediment and we could siphon that off, take it out side, let it dry and get solid enough to toss in the trash.

07-05-2009, 12:34 PM	#9 (permalink)
labdude Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1971 Rep Power: 4	About the # of labs in the bay area. Must be like you say, just a few. I've got 3 shipping to me from there. Michelle, you reading this??? Smilewire, there in reality, plenty for the 3 of us in your area. A little tighter "focus" on what you manufacture, will increase your profits for time spent. Do things the way you like, but, I told you so, .....ahead of time. Mike.

07-05-2009, 09:27 PM	#11 (permalink)
labdude Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1971 Rep Power: 4	Tighter for smilewire. Spending time trying to provide correct bands MAYBE time consuming without a good return for the time spent. Lots of reasons for that. How many clients don't have bands??? Not many if any. When I do Herbst, I offer SS crowns. I may soon stock the double thickness bands, that depends on a certain client and how well things go doing the Herbst for him. He likes to use bands, not crowns, but, he can't maintain a supply of bands!!?? Where he used to send his Herbst, his staff always did supply them, now it's a problem???......I could go on.... For some of us, not all, but maybe really most of us, focus on a certain area of tech work,ie, ortho, porcelain, removables, etc, as far as I have seen, is more profitable. AND the lab that specializes, will make a better applinace for their focused area. Those labs that spend time making a removable, then change over when finished with that appliance, and finish their day making a porcelain crown. That type of thing is very unproductive for a small lab.(1 man lab) A 2 man (oops...person...) where 1 does removable only, and the other does the porcelian will be the winners. Now those couple of thoughts in with a guy (person) who sets up a removable lab, then hires a porcelain person to expand. Problem there is, how does the person know they have a GOOD porcelain person?? When they are great at removables, and not done porcelain in a larger way, like they do removables. Easier to focus on an area of the field, build that, IMHO. Mike. and enjoy the spacey game Michelle!

07-05-2009, 09:29 PM	#12 (permalink)
labdude Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1971 Rep Power: 4	As for the # of labs in the area from say, where you are, down to Salinas, smilewire may not really know the #s. Extend that out to Sacramento also.

07-06-2009, 12:23 PM	#13 (permalink)
Smilewire Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Bay Area Posts: 196 Rep Power: 2	[quote=labdude;11911]Tighter for smilewire. Spending time trying to provide correct bands MAYBE time consuming without a good return for the time spent. Lots of reasons for that. How many clients don't have bands??? Not many if any. When I do Herbst, I offer SS crowns. I may soon stock the double thickness bands, that depends on a certain client and how well things go doing the Herbst for him. He likes to use bands, not crowns, but, he can't maintain a supply of bands!!?? Where he used to send his Herbst, his staff always did supply them, now it's a problem???......I could go on.... QUOTE] Yeah I KNOW that the assistants and doctors hate removing those sscrowns I think it may be going the way of bands... I remember I use to make ACRYLIC herbst!!! They always broke so we stopped

07-06-2009, 12:45 PM	#15 (permalink)
labdude Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1971 Rep Power: 4	Herbst have been "troublesome". Still can be strange. Most of them I see these days are on SS crowns. Design and components change alot with these things. From use of bands, to crowns, to casting. As well as a lab that can afford to invest in the manufactureing side. Then what happens is exclusive appliances that no one else can get the parts for, and the parts are not interchangeable due to thread size. They alter this slightly, then you can't match anything. Some "types" out there now are interchangeable, doesn't seem like many though. Thing that works and is most popular right now.....SS crowns and Hanks mechanism. Available through Specality Appliances. Crowns from OSE. Also, Specialty has a nut that has a "cap" laser welded over the back side, makes it real easy to solder. These Hanks with those type nuts cost about $85.00. This type of Herbst can be assembled and polished in about an hour, and are a favorite for my clients.

07-07-2009, 01:41 PM	#16 (permalink)
labdude Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1971 Rep Power: 4	Simplification of the elaboration asked for by Michelle.... Great Lakes Orthodontics....send them a PFM....see what happens. They seem to be "focused", it might be working.