Titanium porcelain

[trianglej]

Once again I'm coming to DLN for advice. Has anyone or is anyone currently using a specific porcelain on titanium copings? What manufacturers are recommended? Anything really looking good out there in this category? Any hints, tips or tricks you would like to share? Also how about problems or downsides of using titanium, we are getting them milled,so I'm aware of the casting difficulty.

[doug]

people who talk about this process seem to like the GC porcelain

[lcmlabforum]

Vita makes one
Titanium Porcelain | Vident.com
LCM

[k2 Ceramic Studio]

Vita makes one
Titanium Porcelain | Vident.com
LCM

Been working with the GC stuff for over 6 years and get really nice results, vita do make one but I am very sure it was designed around old school cast Ti and not the new milled stuff that GC was made for. Have used both but get better results with GC, have posted this before but here goes:

Sandblast the copings, leave on your bench for 5 min to oxidize in the air then put a very fine wash of GC Ti bonder on (must mix it well) then fire and do a fine wash of Ti opaque, we use the B1 as a wash because once the Ti bonder is fired it comes out Black! so the B1 helps to kill the black a bit, then opaque as normal. We tend to cut our margins right back as it is needs a lot of opaque to kill the oxide. The GC stuff is very strong in colour so if you are use to Ivoclar porcelain then it will be a bit of a learning curve, have never had a problem firing this stuff and you can put it in the furnace as many times as you like, no need to have one furnace only to fire it in as we fire all our metals Zr and emax in the same furnaces (not at the same time Lol), easy to polish but keep the pressure down when sandblasting the inside of them once glazed because if it is too high then it sparks like mad.
Don't take over 810'c. We have been doing these for years and get really good results, as good as any other porcelain, the only thing I don't like is that you have to use powder opaque (way to slow) If you find a paste opaque then PLEASE let me know! Pete

[trianglej]

Thanks K2,this is what I was looking for(someone who actually has results)I have a Vita test kit off Ebay. so we'll try that first, and I've heard good things about the GC stuff. But as always, there's a learning curve when you jump into something new. So we are looking for some help to shorten to time span.
I'm assuming that a standard cement will work as well?

[disturbed]

Sandblast the copings, leave on your bench for 5 min to oxidize in the air

air oxidizes the metal in 5 min.??? Ti oxidizes????!!!!????.....oye

you can see oxidation, the dark coating on your metal copings after degassing, thats an oxidation layer.. are you seeing oxidation form on the Ti after your bench set???.....

[k2 Ceramic Studio]

Yep just tel the Doc to do the same as he/she would do for a normal pbc with regards to preparation and cementing. Ti seems to scare the life out of most people but it really is easy to use. You can still use your Vita bonder once you get the GC kit as it will last for ages, We had to order some GC stuff once and it took too long to come through so we used some demo Vita bonder gear and it worked fine. We use it on all bridges over 4 units as its easier than soldering a rocking bridge. A lab near me decided to do a full arch upper as there first taste of Ti and it went really well, no problems using the bonder or the porcelain. so go for it and have fun.

[k2 Ceramic Studio]

air oxidizes the metal in 5 min.??? Ti oxidizes????!!!!????.....oye

you can see oxidation, the dark coating on your metal copings after degassing, thats an oxidation layer.. are you seeing oxidation form on the Ti after your bench set???.....

Disturbed, you really wind me up, you don't use Titanium and have no working knowledge of it but insist on posting about it. I have posted over and over again about Titanium oxidizing in open air but you seem to know more than anyone on this subject. Someone posted on here that they would like some advice off people who are using Titanium, I have given advice based on what I do in the lab and what works for me. I am not getting into a contest with you, I use it, it works you don't use it and don't like it, the same way you don't like zirconium.
Yes it does oxidize in 5min, sorry but that is a fact.The corrosion resistance of Ti Grade 2 is based on the presence of a stable, continuous, tightly adherent oxide layer. This layer forms spontaneously and immediately upon exposure to oxygen. If damaged, it re-forms readily as long as there is some source of oxygen(air or moisture) in the environment. Again if you would like me to post 6 years of clinical data relating to porcelain bonded to Ti then I am more than happy to do so, your argument is not constructive or helpful , its blind.

Peter N Harling ISDD Scientific Advisory Board Member

ISDD Scientific Advisory Board is comprised of distinguished practitioners, lecturers and researchers in the field of digital dentistry. As Scientific Advisory Board members, they are responsible for reviewing the content of this (ISDD) website to ensure that we provide you with the most accurate information on digital dentistry products and procedures. Due to their expert knowledge, you are equipped with articles and theories based on facts, including guidelines and technical standards defined by them.

[lcmlabforum]

Do post the data and can you give specific type of Ti, and Ti alloy used verusus specific Titanium ceramics used in those clinical data set? What CTE are you finding for the
CP vs. the Alloy? Which have better bond?
Besides these 2 there are others:
ORIGIN CAD/CAM
Did you test the Noritake one?
Super Porcelain Ti-22:
http://www.noritake-dental.co.jp/mat.../pdf/ti_22.pdf

Thanks for sharing,
LCM

[k2 Ceramic Studio]

No problem LCM, let me get some jobs out the door and I will come back to you regarding CTE, and grade of Ti, will take a bit longer to compile clinical data, will be from our longest Ti user so should not take that long. Back soon
Pete

[Mark Jackson]

This topic comes up again and again, and while everybody proposes that it's the next big thing, or states that they will be undertaking the project soon, I've yet to hear of more than a couple people who claim to do it regularly and successfully.

So many better materials out there.