Glazing e.max LT

[TheLabGuy]

Anyone ever notice that when you layer the LT for veneers that the LT substructure doesn't glaze well at all. Anybody have any secrets out there that would help would be duly appreciated....Thanks

[sixonice]

Originally Posted by TheLabGuy

Anyone ever notice that when you layer the LT for veneers that the LT substructure doesn't glaze well at all. Anybody have any secrets out there that would help would be duly appreciated....Thanks

I can help you! You are correct, the portion of the veneer (or crown) that is layered with the e.max ceram porcelain glazes very nicely (as this is nice sintered glass) & the LT (or lithium discilicate) portion doesn't glaze well. The reason is the LT portion, under extreme magnification is a rougher (but very strong) surface that must be "pre-polished" briefly with a diamond impregnated wheel or suitable pre-polisher. Just enough to smooth that lithium discilicate surface to accept the glaze a bit better. Without doing this step the glaze is just filling in the rougher areas of the surface, hence giving you the lackluster shine. Glaze application and temperature can also play a role. Be certain your using the e.max glaze and you may have to bump your high temps a bit and adjust your vacuum release based on your high temp. Hopefully this will get you on the right track!

[TheLabGuy]

Good deal, that's what I did, I had about 20 of these friday to do and was getting irritated that they wouldn't glaze out correctly. I usually use empress esthetic, but I pre-polished some of the LT as you suggested and they came out nice. Thanks for the heads up.

[sixonice]

Fantastic! Glad your getting them to look nice. Of the many guys using the e.max Press LT ingots, this seems to be a little irritation until you do a tiny bit of smoothing & pre-polishing on the LT portion of the restoration. Yeah, Esthetic Empress is one solid piece of Leucite reinforced glass that has a smooth surface that needs no pre-polishing.

[TheLabGuy]

I have to admit, I'm still not very happy with the LT glazing. I've worked with it for about two weeks now doing single crowns, to veneers, to 10-unit cases. I'm really thinking about going back to the empress esthetic for my veneers because from my view the glaze is so much better and overall easier to work with. Maybe it's the LVI in me, not sure, but i'm not having a good result when I layer these LT ingots when compared to empress esthetic.

[sixonice]

I do understand your view on the Esthetic Empress versus the e.max LT's. I like both systems. I think each has it's advantages. With your e.max glaze, we can get that fixed! First, be sure your using the e.max glazing paste and not the universal (yes, universal works but not as good as the e.max) Next, check your high temps. I have found that even slightly underfired glaze will not fully sinter and give you the high gloss. It is not out of the ordinary to have to raise your high temps 15, 20, 25 degrees celecius above the recommended temps in the manual. Also, be sure to do your prepolishing before you glaze. If you do not prepolish, the layered portion glazes nicely while the ingot portion in lithium discilicate will absorb the glaze more and look underglazed. The prepolish will smooth everything off really nice and prevent the glaze from settling into the ingot portion. Glaze application, I have found is also important. You can't wisk it on really light, you need to load up your brush and apply evenly. Be certain to MIX THE GLAZE up really well when it comes out of the syringe, until it gets nice and creamy. Depending on where you are in the syringe, you may get more liquid or solids which can effect the glaze layer. I hope these ideas can help some.

[TheLabGuy]

Sixonice,
Wonderful suggestions.......I just turned the temp up about 45 degrees farenheit and they glazed out beautifully. I will say I went back to some old tech articles and they say LT blocks should not be layered, only MO ingots should be cut-back and layered. Although I will say I used LT yesterday and today and layered them and they came out gorgeous. Also did a 3-unit YZ all-ceramic bridge using ZirPress. I was blown away how well the Zirpress ingots cover the White YZ substructure. I think I'm going to have to play with the Zirpress, it takes longer to wax and do it that way, but when you don't have much space for porcelain it sure hides that core (YZ) great. Okay, enough of my babble over E.Max....lol

Thanks again sixonice, you're a Rock Star!!!!

[sixonice]

Awesome!! I am very happy they worked out for you. Yes, temps are so important. ALL the Ivoclar porcelains like to be fired a little higher- If your going to error on either side of what the recommended temp says in the user manual....always go higher. The Ivoclar ovens fire higher than most other ovens also. I have also bumped high temps on Centurions, Multimats, Jelrus ovens...you name it. No big deal, when you find that "magic" temp, your golden. Make sure you adjust your vacuum release 2 degrees Fahrenheit BELOW whatever you set the high temp at. The MO ingots (Medium Opacity) are designed as you said, for full build ups. Your waxing and pressing a coping or frame, then layering. The LT ingots (Light Translucency) can go either way. I like the LT for full contour, press, stain and glaze for posteriors, and the LT for anterior veneers with a incisal cutback. LT works nicely if you have an anterior case with say, veneers next to full crowns or a anterior bridge (1 material, 1 smile chemistry). I can't wait till Ivoclar releases the HT (High translucent) ingots this fall.

[dntek]

This is a common problem, in general you need to glaze it twice the first time with stain the second time with no stain plus, either you increase the holding time or raise the final temperature but in most cases you end up with a hand polishing.

[sixonice]

Originally Posted by dntek

This is a common problem, in general you need to glaze it twice the first time with stain the second time with no stain plus, either you increase the holding time or raise the final temperature but in most cases you end up with a hand polishing.

Your right it is a common problem, but it is a problem that can resolved. It personally happened to me when I first started to learn about e.max. I re-read the instructions for use on e.max Press on the glaze section and it was in black & white to PRE-POLISH with a suitable pre-polisher in a handpiece before glazing (smoothing the lithium discilicate surface). It took me a couple to really get good at it, but then it was perfect. Your correct with raising the high temps also. Glaze application is key. Mix the glaze really well and apply in a decent layer (I learned not to skimp out).

[ChrisR]

dntek,
I used to also have the problem of after the 2 glaze firing having to hand polish. I found if you use glaze strait out of the syringe the majority of the time it will need a good hand polish, but if you get some glazing powder and add it to the glaze out of the syringe it gives you a excellent glaze and no polishing is needed.

[odchamp]

I found this forum today, because i was searching the internet for better ways to polish e-max full press crowns.
This must be quite wide spread, but i will try out some of these tips and let you know.

cheers

odchamp

[sixonice]

Originally Posted by odchamp

I found this forum today, because i was searching the internet for better ways to polish e-max full press crowns.
This must be quite wide spread, but i will try out some of these tips and let you know.

cheers

odchamp

Glad you found the forum! Hope it helps you out in the future. Anyway, if you can take away one "nugget" on the glazing e.max, just be sure you mix the glaze up really good out of the syringe (until it gets nice and creamy) and put a heavier layer of glaze on the pressing. If you paint the glaze on the same way as a PFM restoration, it will not glaze properly. Don't get "skimpy" with the glaze and you'll have great results!

[Al.]

Originally Posted by sixonice

If you paint the glaze on the same way as a PFM restoration, it will not glaze properly. Don't get "skimpy" with the glaze and you'll have great results!

DITTO!!

[odchamp]

Many thanks for your tips.
I glazed 4 upper anteriors, using glaze paste plus glaze powder, and the results where much better, however this case needed a high glaze so i still had to hand polish just a little, but the standard glaze is much better.
Thanks again.

Odchamp

[sixonice]

Originally Posted by odchamp

Many thanks for your tips.
I glazed 4 upper anteriors, using glaze paste plus glaze powder, and the results where much better, however this case needed a high glaze so i still had to hand polish just a little, but the standard glaze is much better.
Thanks again.

Odchamp

Glad to hear the glazing went better for you. That's what we are here for...to help other techs out! I think the more you glaze the e.max, the better you will refine your technique. If you want to (and you have the time), you can also glaze your units a second time for a higher luster.

[odchamp]

Sixonice, thanks for your help, yes i may try two glazes, but putting it on thicker and adding glaze powder wad good.
Seeing as you are in the mood for helping me, what do you do when you need to get 5 units out that day, and the shades are very differant, and you only have one press furnace!!
I personally seem to have to keep burning up electicity most of the day, as i find im investing, pressing, etc every 45 mins, and keepnig a list of what im doing, to save me going mad!
have you any tips or tricks.

thanks

odchamp

[sixonice]

Originally Posted by odchamp

Sixonice, thanks for your help, yes i may try two glazes, but putting it on thicker and adding glaze powder wad good.
Seeing as you are in the mood for helping me, what do you do when you need to get 5 units out that day, and the shades are very differa