build up liquid

AL1 · 01-15-2010, 11:20 AM

Any one using sepectrafire build liquid, or something else thats good? I mainly use creation porcelain.

thewhitelab · 01-15-2010, 05:00 PM

I have been using GC Initial for a couple of years and find it very good

CatamountRob · 01-15-2010, 09:32 PM

I use Smile Lines U-Mid liquid Advanced with d.Sign porcelain and it works fine for me. Rob

AL1 · 01-16-2010, 10:14 AM

I have tried smile lines umid, I cant get it to work right for me. Porcelain does not have any body with it.

AL1 · 01-16-2010, 10:23 AM

The white lab, what metal are you using for your GCMC.

Travis · 01-16-2010, 11:51 AM

I dont understand people who can use porc out of the bottles using only distilled water. I have no control over the porc when I build using water.

SiKBOY · 01-16-2010, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis

I dont understand people who can use porc out of the bottles using only distilled water. I have no control over the porc when I build using water.

I use tap water to build up, as its what I got trained in. It is hard to control at first and you really have to keep an eye on the consistancy of the porc as it dries out faster, especially on hot days of if you have the AC on in the room.

I like how I can place the porc and then "set" it with a quick dab of tissue paper to dry it out. I find that it doesn't shrink as much after firing.

In saying that, the best liquid that I have used is the Weiland REFLEX Carving liquid.

SiKBOY · 01-16-2010, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AL1

I have tried smile lines umid, I cant get it to work right for me. Porcelain does not have any body with it.

I have used the smile line liquid before and I didn't like it too much either. I agree with you as I don't find it has enough hold or "body" with it too. It's not viscous enough. Someone also told me that the umid liquid is toxic. It does taste a little funny when I lick my brush.

thewhitelab · 01-17-2010, 12:45 PM

I am using 'maxibond 2' argen (Uk based) as I have said like GC Initial so much have started using ZR initial liquid with Emax with good results, also have a bottle of smile line umid collecting dust. What is it with techs can't seem to throw anything away!

kcdt · 01-18-2010, 02:24 PM

I've used both distilled water and DVA Contour Liquid. Try the Dva, its worked for me, and I've used it both on a Renfert tray and as a medium for dry powder builds.

labman01 · 01-19-2010, 07:47 PM

I'm using SmileLine wet tray with distilled water, I just dab my applied porcelain with a tissue to keep my porcelain from slumping. I think I'll try SmileLine liquid next.

billydte · 01-19-2010, 08:35 PM

I use distilled water and a tissue, works great for us.

SiKBOY · 01-19-2010, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billydte

I use distilled water and a tissue, works great for us.

why distilled water and not normal tap water?

AL1 · 01-20-2010, 09:43 AM

Some parts of the country have a lot of minerals in the water that may affect the porcelain. Distilled water solves that problem.
Here in the Seattle area it doesnt seem to matter. I have used tap water for years with no ill effects.

kcdt · 01-20-2010, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AL1

Some parts of the country have a lot of minerals in the water that may affect the porcelain. Distilled water solves that problem.
Here in the Seattle area it doesnt seem to matter. I have used tap water for years with no ill effects.

Same reason to use distilled water with gypsums... mineral content can affect expansion ratios and crushing strength.
With ceramics, they can leave unwanted "characterization"= spots.

billydte · 01-20-2010, 07:03 PM

we are in East Tennessee next to Eastman Chemical Company..........I'm gonna stick with distilled.

SiKBOY · 01-20-2010, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcdt

Same reason to use distilled water with gypsums... mineral content can affect expansion ratios and crushing strength.
With ceramics, they can leave unwanted "characterization"= spots.

Wow!, thats the first that I have heard using only distilled water to mix your stone.
Does everyone also measure out the weight of the stone and use the correct ratio to water as per product instructions?

I have a friend that used beer to build up porc and he said that it was fine... but then again, he might of been drunk!

billydte · 01-21-2010, 04:22 AM

you need to weight out your stone and use correct ratio of water (for di stone).
White stone and plaster, no I don't, but Di stone yeah.

Do you use the correct ratio with investment? Beer and Porcelain, never heard that one, thats funny, might make the day go faster.

SiKBOY · 01-21-2010, 05:20 AM

I use ratios for investment but I make up my own ratios. I find that the manufacturers instructions on everything are just ballpark figures. Especially, porc firing cycles, setting times for investment, stones etc.

For stone, depending on how many models I have to pour up, the more I have to in one turn, I will make the mixture more runny. The less, I try to mix it as dry as I can before I vaccuum mix it.

If I followed the instructions for every product that I use, I don't think that I would make any money at all. Waiting for setting times, drying times, firing cycles, measuring ratios for every mixture doesn't make sense in a comercial lab.

kcdt · 01-21-2010, 12:32 PM

I measure.....
the buildup seems like a waste of good beer- nothing I hate worse than a drunk with a lack of commitment.

01-15-2010, 11:20 AM	#1 (permalink)
AL1 Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Seattle Posts: 173 Rep Power: 2	build up liquid Any one using sepectrafire build liquid, or something else thats good? I mainly use creation porcelain.

01-21-2010, 04:22 AM	#18 (permalink)
billydte Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Kingsport, TN Posts: 96 Rep Power: 1	you need to weight out your stone and use correct ratio of water (for di stone). White stone and plaster, no I don't, but Di stone yeah. Do you use the correct ratio with investment? Beer and Porcelain, never heard that one, thats funny, might make the day go faster. Last edited by billydte : 01-21-2010 at 04:24 AM.

01-21-2010, 05:20 AM	#19 (permalink)
SiKBOY Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 75 Rep Power: 1	I use ratios for investment but I make up my own ratios. I find that the manufacturers instructions on everything are just ballpark figures. Especially, porc firing cycles, setting times for investment, stones etc. For stone, depending on how many models I have to pour up, the more I have to in one turn, I will make the mixture more runny. The less, I try to mix it as dry as I can before I vaccuum mix it. If I followed the instructions for every product that I use, I don't think that I would make any money at all. Waiting for setting times, drying times, firing cycles, measuring ratios for every mixture doesn't make sense in a comercial lab. Last edited by SiKBOY : 01-22-2010 at 12:31 AM.

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01-15-2010, 05:00 PM	#2 (permalink)
thewhitelab Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Uk Posts: 28 Rep Power: 0	I have been using GC Initial for a couple of years and find it very good

01-15-2010, 09:32 PM	#3 (permalink)
CatamountRob Supporter Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: W. Rutland, Vermont Posts: 150 Rep Power: 2	I use Smile Lines U-Mid liquid Advanced with d.Sign porcelain and it works fine for me. Rob

01-16-2010, 10:14 AM	#4 (permalink)
AL1 Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Seattle Posts: 173 Rep Power: 2	I have tried smile lines umid, I cant get it to work right for me. Porcelain does not have any body with it.

01-16-2010, 10:23 AM	#5 (permalink)
AL1 Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Seattle Posts: 173 Rep Power: 2	The white lab, what metal are you using for your GCMC.

01-16-2010, 11:51 AM	#6 (permalink)
Travis Buell Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: PA Age: 35 Posts: 2219 Rep Power: 6	I dont understand people who can use porc out of the bottles using only distilled water. I have no control over the porc when I build using water.

01-17-2010, 12:45 PM	#9 (permalink)
thewhitelab Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Uk Posts: 28 Rep Power: 0	I am using 'maxibond 2' argen (Uk based) as I have said like GC Initial so much have started using ZR initial liquid with Emax with good results, also have a bottle of smile line umid collecting dust. What is it with techs can't seem to throw anything away!

01-18-2010, 02:24 PM	#10 (permalink)
kcdt Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 761 Rep Power: 3	I've used both distilled water and DVA Contour Liquid. Try the Dva, its worked for me, and I've used it both on a Renfert tray and as a medium for dry powder builds.

01-19-2010, 07:47 PM	#11 (permalink)
labman01 Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 7 Rep Power: 0	I'm using SmileLine wet tray with distilled water, I just dab my applied porcelain with a tissue to keep my porcelain from slumping. I think I'll try SmileLine liquid next.

01-19-2010, 08:35 PM	#12 (permalink)
billydte Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Kingsport, TN Posts: 96 Rep Power: 1	I use distilled water and a tissue, works great for us.

01-20-2010, 09:43 AM	#14 (permalink)
AL1 Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Seattle Posts: 173 Rep Power: 2	Some parts of the country have a lot of minerals in the water that may affect the porcelain. Distilled water solves that problem. Here in the Seattle area it doesnt seem to matter. I have used tap water for years with no ill effects.

01-20-2010, 07:03 PM	#16 (permalink)
billydte Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Kingsport, TN Posts: 96 Rep Power: 1	we are in East Tennessee next to Eastman Chemical Company..........I'm gonna stick with distilled.

01-21-2010, 12:32 PM	#20 (permalink)
kcdt Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 761 Rep Power: 3	I measure..... the buildup seems like a waste of good beer- nothing I hate worse than a drunk with a lack of commitment.