Anatomy

[labdude]

Somebody asked me how to get the best outcome of anatomy in a porcelain crown. Molars and such. Seems you lose detail when fired. Sharp when brushed in, soften detail when fired.
What's a good method for obtaining natural looking occlusal detail in the finished crown?? Rather than having washed out chicken scratches.

I have no clue, I'm an ortho lab. I make a couple of post and people think I know everything.
Mkike.

[DeVreugd]

Originally Posted by labdude

Somebody asked me how to get the best outcome of anatomy in a porcelain crown. Molars and such. Seems you lose detail when fired. Sharp when brushed in, soften detail when fired.
What's a good method for obtaining natural looking occlusal detail in the finished crown?? Rather than having washed out chicken scratches.

I have no clue, I'm an ortho lab. I make a couple of post and people think I know everything.
Mkike.

One way to create and maintain functional occlusal morphology is to use molds and the PTM systems. In these pics I used BioFit molds and Authentic Pulse Interface Press to Metal. What you see in wax is what you get in the final press.

Russell T. DeVreugd, CDT

[alquir]

another thecnic, is just like you waxing in PKT technic, you build up furrow and crest in porcelain with add on sistem, is simple but you need practice

[TheLabGuy]

Russ, you're the man. However, if i'm not pressing, just building/stacking, I use very little porcelain and a very fine tipped brush (smileline). All my anatomy is built in, If it takes me more than 1 min to finish a crown, I didn't build it correctly. I will use a endo file ( size 5 or 10) to create some deeper grooves coming out of the fossa, but still do this in the building stage. Chicken scratches result from a ceramist who would rather finish (lazy way) his/her anatomy in with a handpiece rather than build it (just my observations). Another neat little trick for all you small labs I learned along the way to cut cost is, I never mix porcelain on a glass slab, I work directly out of the bottles, less waste and saves time. Hope this helps.

[labdude]

Thanks guys for the reply. I'm sure this will be very helpful to all concerned now, and in the future.
This is just the type of thing that will make this site great. Some of the techniques that seem simple to the ones who have been at it for a while, are not so obvious to some of us.
Thank you all for sharing!!
Mike.

[trisha]

I make a couple of post and people think I know everything.

We know better then that!

[DeVreugd]

Originally Posted by TheLabGuy

Russ, you're the man. However, if i'm not pressing, just building/stacking, I use very little porcelain and a very fine tipped brush (smileline). All my anatomy is built in, If it takes me more than 1 min to finish a crown, I didn't build it correctly. I will use a endo file ( size 5 or 10) to create some deeper grooves coming out of the fossa, but still do this in the building stage. Chicken scratches result from a ceramist who would rather finish (lazy way) his/her anatomy in with a handpiece rather than build it (just my observations). Another neat little trick for all you small labs I learned along the way to cut cost is, I never mix porcelain on a glass slab, I work directly out of the bottles, less waste and saves time. Hope this helps.

Rob,

I agree with your technique for hand building the porcelain. I teach my posterior occlusion course in wax because you can add and subtract quickly. The occlusal compass concept is generic to all materials. If you understand the compass, the build-up is fast and natural. I like to use Renfert's Pro Form 12 liquid in the porcelain as it holds the form better while adding the morphology. As in my waxing course, I start with the mesial buccal, distal buccal. mesial lingual and finish with the distal lingual. By doing the steps you can add internal stains between each step which looks very natural after firing. Below are some pic's from a demo I did in Chicago a few years ago.

Russell T. DeVreugd, CDT

[TheLabGuy]

Originally Posted by DeVreugd

Rob,

I agree with your technique for hand building the porcelain. I teach my posterior occlusion course in wax because you can add and subtract quickly. The occlusal compass concept is generic to all materials. If you understand the compass, the build-up is fast and natural. I like to use Renfert's Pro Form 12 liquid in the porcelain as it holds the form better while adding the morphology. As in my waxing course, I start with the mesial buccal, distal buccal. mesial lingual and finish with the distal lingual. By doing the steps you can add internal stains between each step which looks very natural after firing. Below are some pic's from a demo I did in Chicago a few years ago.

Russell T. DeVreugd, CDT

Russ,
You got some crazy talents brother when it comes to anatomy, Lovin' it. As for your Renfert's Pro Form 12 liquid, I'm wondering, is this for just high-fusing or can you use it for low fusing porcelain, and is there an all-ceramic version out there as well? Do you push doing more pressables versus traditional pfm because of the waxing advantage.....just curious? What kind (manufacture) of pressable's give you the best result? Okay, I'll shut up before you tell me I have to attend one of your classes.....hehehehe Which wouldn't be a bad idea, one more full mouth out the door with no problems and my self-esteem may be at it's peak........what better way to bring it down, then watch you for a period time..........I'm not worthy.....lol

[DeVreugd]

Originally Posted by TheLabGuy

Russ,
You got some crazy talents brother when it comes to anatomy, Lovin' it. As for your Renfert's Pro Form 12 liquid, I'm wondering, is this for just high-fusing or can you use it for low fusing porcelain, and is there an all-ceramic version out there as well? Do you push doing more pressables versus traditional pfm because of the waxing advantage.....just curious? What kind (manufacture) of pressable's give you the best result? Okay, I'll shut up before you tell me I have to attend one of your classes.....hehehehe Which wouldn't be a bad idea, one more full mouth out the door with no problems and my self-esteem may be at it's peak........what better way to bring it down, then watch you for a period time..........I'm not worthy.....lol

Rob,

Thanks for your kind words..... To answer your questions: I use Renfert liquid with d-sign, Creation and VM7. These are the porcelains of choice in my lab.

I use Authentic Pulse Interface for pressables. I like the concept of working with value rather than chroma and need fewer ingots in stock. I use pressables for cases that require 360 degree porcelain margins. There is no way I can hand stack as well as press this style margin. If you can wax a great margin, it will press out the same. (see photo below) I really don't push either concept. Hopefully, I will have the pleasure to meet you in one of my Courses.....

Russell T. DeVreugd, CDT

[rgkbmk]

Simple answer if you are loosing anatomy when firing , your probaly over firing one way or another. Either drop your temp slightly or increase your rate of climb slightly. I normally build to contour and refine only and do 2 to 3 bakes to get good anatomy. And yes Russ is the man : )
Rick

[Brian8]

You may have to recalibrate you oven.

Brian

[TheLabGuy]

Did anyone notice in the JDT this month on the last page what was spoken about Russ DeVreugd? JDT does a article where they interview some CDT every month and ask them various questions. This month was a CDT named Sharon Arnold, from Mississippi. JDT asked Sharon what was the BEST continuing education course? She replied, "Russ DeVreugd, CDT's anterior waxing course. He's very gifted and smart. He just knows so well how to teach it and to systematically break it down." GREAT JOB RUSS, Kudo's, you're making a celebrity out of us all.

[Travis]

Originally Posted by TheLabGuy

I learned along the way to cut cost is