Take a look down in the "Patients" forum...

[labdude]

A disscussion of the freedom of info, that DLN offers, is being challenged.
It's like this folks.......
Anyone who would give up a freedom, for a little bit of security, deserves neither.

[AmyLouRDH]

I have been married to Travis now for 2 years. One thing I know about my husband is what a hard worker he is. One day he got some ants in his pants about having a website devoted to dental technicians all over the country that would allow them to share ideas, to chat and get acquainted. He wanted a forum. The definition of a forum is a PUBLIC meeting places open for discussion. My husband wanted it open to all so it would thrive. My husband not only works about a 60-70 hr work week being a tech, but also constantly works with this website updating and bettering it so everyone here can have a chance to discuss. I have always been proud of what he does here because he is proud of it and it makes him happy. Recently some of the activity on here has made him upset and I can see why. Instead of taking your troubles to him with a PM or an e-mail your bombarded the website and acted like children. I thought a forum with a bunch of grown men/women would have acted more civilized and appropriate. This place is no place for a pissing contest. Once you all realize just how hard he works to please you all, maybe you would respect this site a little more and respect him a little more. I do not like seeing my husband upset and would prefer not to see it again.

[labdude]

It was just a couple of wack jobs making trouble. Part of having a site, wack jobs show up.
One is on "vacation" for his ridiculous post, trying to push Travis into making the site something other than what it's intended for.
Idiot behavior.
Followed up by childish behavior of removing pictures by others.
Pictures taken down after having been up for quite some time, in some instances. Really childish and foolish.
Removing pictures from past posts, give me a break.
BS done in the name of what?? Protecting themselves from competiton?? China?? Whatever??
Amy, it was only a couple of jerk offs. Travis' site grows every day, and always will. No idiot behavior will stop it.
Great thing he started here.
Comes with a couple of wack jobs once in a while, we'll deal with them far more strongly in the future.

[oldretread]

Travis/Amy,
Just a couple of observations from an old geezer. This site is fine just as it is. Travis and your loyal group of moderators are doing just fine.
Have been mostly a lurk and learn member for close to a year. Have learned much.
The nay sayers are really not worth the time or emotion you may be tempted to give to their posts/actions. Let them take their marbles/pictures and go home.
The site is fine in it's present format. The general public will occaisionaly step in and ask for an opinion... fine by me. There is no code of ethics/law that says you cannot give honest answers to honest questions.
All concerned with the running of this site are doing a terrific job, and helping many of the lurkers gain knowledge that will make them better techs. I know it has helped me.
I cannot help but add the following, just to poke the two nay sayers a little bit.
If they really want to see the wholesale "leaking of arcane dental info" they should go to youtube and do a search for "umichdent". I am sure the leaders at the University Of Michigan would be happy to hear some of their highly intellectual complaints about sharing information.

[Al.]

A half dozen large mail order labs took out adds here.

They were not advertising their services to other labs like Scott at DMC does but they were advertising directly to Dentists.

They do not participate in the forums like Scott does.

These labs like Trident and Arrowhead and the others send information and mailing boxes to my clients.

These lab owners and their managers are the ones taking advantage of this site. They lurk but never post.

[labdude]

Al,
Grow a pair.
You are one of the lurkers now...aren't you.
You just don't understand competition do you.
Send out your own friggin boxes and info.....
Your whinning dude....
As I understand it, you don't seem to have a work volume problem, so what really is your problem??
You afraid someone will take a client away??? It happens to everybody.
Gee, I bet clients were changing labs before this site was here.
Continue to lurk now Al.

[Travis]

I shouldn't have to explain myself here. I feel I am getting involved for no reason.

People love reading these types of posts. I know I do. Its nice to see people fighting and arguing, because to me it means people have some interest in the site. I dont like what happened but it did make for some good reading. We may have lost a couple good techs but I know there are many more.

I don't care who you are, how big your name is, or even how much you contribute to the site. If you cant get along with people who aren't Americans go back to dental town. That sites full of guys like you. The whole point of this site was to get away from the pissing contest there and have a site for technicians good or bad.

I would love to ban thelabguy, Al, and Charles007 for being aristocratic. Don't threaten me with the site failing because of your absence. I dont care about them. Go back from were you guys came from. The site was successful with three members as it is now with almost a thousand. I don't like racist people. You three are total racists. I don't like what the China government has done to this country any more than the next guy, but I am not going to stop a Chinese technician from lurking or joining the site and telling me what he thinks. We have people here from many different countries and it will only continue to grow because of this. We do have freedom of speech here and I stand behind this.

This open site format is the reason it has become successful. If it was private there would be 30 members talking about nothing.

Labdude does piss people off, I know this. He loves tweaking people so they tweak back. He is really good at getting people posting. I don't agree with somethings he may say, a lot of people don't. Their his posts, and there nonthreatening. This aside Labdude is a great guy, a great technician and a great post-er.

I can't please everyone here. I am not going to change anything on what happened or what will happen if I don't do something. I love this site, I love everyone here, I hope you all continue to post, and I hope you all continue to make this website grow. EVERYONE here is important not just a select few.

[Al.]

Travis you are puting an awful lot of words in my mouth I never said.

I have never made threats. I have never said anything racist.

I told Labdude and you have it, that I have no problem with the Chinese labs advertising here because they provide a service for labs just like DMC does with his milling center.

My objection was to the large mail order labs advertising to Drs. here. That changes this site from a place that techs can come to and trouble shoot and exchange ideas to a competive site exactly like DT.

To anybody:

Please post anything I have ever said that was even the slightest bit racist.

Please post any threat or even the slightest hint of a threat I have ever posted.

Please post any aristocratic attitude I have ever shown.

Feel free to post any of my PMs.

[Travis]

I am glad to hear that your not. I stand corrected. Sorry for saying something that isn't true.

You had a lot of good posts that had nothing to do with tricks or money making ideas that you took down for no reason. Cases that showed your ability in the mouth on what can't be explained with words.

Your work cannot be copied or replicated because it is art. Most people don't have the ability to create what you do as effortlessly as you do it and I think you don't see this.

I like what you do here. I hope someday you continue were you left off and show people like myself what this job is all about. You were helping people and at the end of the day you can say to yourself as I do I may have helped someone today and feel good about it.

[Al.]

Originally Posted by Travis

I am glad to hear that your not. I stand corrected. Sorry for saying something that isn't true.

You had a lot of good posts that had nothing to do with tricks or money making ideas that you took down for no reason. Cases that showed your ability in the mouth on what can't be explained with words.

Your work cannot be copied or replicated because it is art. Most people don't have the ability to create what you do as effortlessly as you do it and I think you don't see this.

I like what you do here. I hope someday you continue were you left off and show people like myself what this job is all about. You were helping people and at the end of the day you can say to yourself as I do I may have helped someone today and feel good about it.

Travis I enjoy this site. The only time I have been in any squabble here is with someone that attacked Kreyer. I didnt get involved with the reason I hate chinese labs thread or the irish eyes thread, I tried to lighten that thread up with a stupid comment.

I am all for the little lab except NW ortho labs.

The big labs and the outsoursers and the cerac guys are predicting that the small labs will dissapear. That the guys that focus on single units and simple bridges are doomed.

The outsoursers are saying openly that their work is superior to the US labs work. Dentists are bragging that they are getting "drop in" porc fused to Noble for under $80.

The competition is starting to stiffen up and us little guys need to put on our A game.

Mabey I over reacted. I see these guys on DT pulling up old posts from a yr ago to solicit Drs. That site is only about networking with Drs this site is about networking with other labs.
Why dont you get some suppliers to sponser the site? Like Zahn etc? Or Ivoclar. They can have links here to order supplies on line from or have new products posted etc.

[CatamountRob]

Well said Al!, Rob

[labdude]

Putting on your A game.....grow a pair and compete.
To stop ads from other labs would be, unfair and controling.
Something you find China doing to their people, you want us to do that to people at the site here......really???

[labdude]

HHHmmmmmm....NW ortho labs a problem???

[DDDental]

Labdude, take it from Travis, you really start to take all this too personally. Lately, nobody is talking technology, but BS. You as a moderator should be above us, not in the same line or worse. I did a couple of things that I shouldn't, but I said fair enough and that's it. Life goes on.

[Al.]

Originally Posted by labdude

To stop ads from other labs would be, unfair and controling.

Thats stupid.

Put adds on here from labs and it completely changes the tone.

It puts everybody except the super confident on their guard. People are not willing to share things with their open competitors, especially their technical problems.

Thats why the lab forum on DT is dead! Nobody in their right mind is going to show any vulnerabilitys over there, but they feel free over here because it is a non competive environment.

Change that and these forums will decline. People come here to learn and network with other labs not to compete with them. Not to be made to feel stupid for asking questions.

Your looking at it through eyes of 40 yrs in the business but put your self in the shoes of a lab owner that has only been in business for 2 or 3 yrs and their still buying equipment and trying to figure out how to pick up new clients.
Do you think they will ever post if they know the big lab in their city is advertising to dentists here.

[DMC]

All you guys are great. Viva la difference!

Come on and kiss and make-up! Life's too short to argue about this stuff.


(I would love to have that pissing contest that Travis' wife suggested. When can we do it? I know a few real squirters)

[Al.]

Labdude, this is how this site is now.

Joes dental lab: Guys I just got emax and I am having problems with my pressings. Im getting short margins and a heavy reaction layer. I dont know what to do and I have 6 units that have to go out Monday morning.

5 or 6 guys chime in with suggestions on what works for them ,and the problems they had, how they fixed them, and the materials they used, and the way they used them. People even post pics of the way they sprue.

This is how it is on a competive site like DT where labs advertise to dentists.

Joes lab: Same question and problem.

Response:
Well at Als expert lab we have been doing Emax for 6 yrs and we have done hundreds of units for satisfied clients. Our crowns just drop in the mouth.

The way we do it is buy using all certified and highly trained techs, and it is all done under microscopes and we use only the best materials and we give pin point cusp to fossa occlusal contacts on all our crowns with life like layering.
Joe if you still need help figuring out all your problems you can contact me at
1-800-useme, any time day or night.


Do you get the point?

[labdude]

Well shoot DD,
I'm really here for the fun!
When something is written, it's far different than to hear the same thing spoken.
It gets taken the way a person reads it, not always the way it is meant.
Like Al, says, He's all for the little labs except for NW ortho labs.....I take that as play. Even if he is truly pissed at me, I still see that line as play. So.....grow a pair toward Al is about the same, just not completely. It relates to the point he is making to me right now, I know his fear and dislike for the DT behavior, Al doesn't have to worry about that kind of crap. His work and, mainly his service to his clients is to good for him to fear. His posts here help the little guy compete. Sure the big @sswipe labs use what they see as well, BUT, these post Al does, and the ones I do for ortho, help level the playing field for the little guy.
The issue he is explaining to me here in this thread....DO YOU GET THE POINT? I got that point a long time ago. just that darn written word, and my fooling around teasing everybody, it gets lost, and seem I don't get it.
My pictures and videos are still up, and always will be.
Yup, lots of experience here, confidence beyond belief too. It comes with time.
I to dislike the portion of Al's post concerning the difference in answers from one site, compared to this site. Which is exactly why I'm here and not there.
To answer someones question with nothing more than an offer to "Try us out, that lab with the question really sucks", is just plain beyond tasteless. It is beyond competitive, it is low life to do that. Clearly why they have crappy lab participation over there.
I come across those types of labs, now, and I have in the past many times, I grab them by the nose and kick them in the @ss.
THAT type of crap I take personally!!!
AND!!!! I take that type of crap personally as well when it directed toward ANYONE at this site. I will protect everyone here as best I can from aggressive BS take over like Al mentions.
PROOF.....my post still are complete and always will be. I feel no question asked is a dumb question, and have pointed this out to those who have stated that maybe they were asking a dumb question, as well as they sometimes suggest that they might be taking my time some how. THEY ARE NOT TAKING MY TIME!!!!
I AM, AND ALWAYS WILL, FREELY GIVE IT, along with evrything I have come to know and learn over the past 40 years.

AND!!!! by the way AUG 1, 2009, marks my 40th year in ortho lab work.
These guys at DT that smart @ss, and try to steal clients while pretending to answer a question can kiss my BUTT!!

Al, your right on. I here you, and have known for years that point.
I AM A GEEZER!!! IT"S BEEN 40 FRIGGIN YEARS!!!
And I have loved every moment of it.....but... that being said.....
doing what I do at this site has been the BEST PART of that 40 years.
With that said...you can all still bite me! (humor folks...just humor O.K.?)
Mike.

[labdude]

Hey Scott,
I am black below the waist, and white from the wallet up.

[DDDental]

Mike, I agree. We all write something that is different than spoken word. Or for that matter different than real world. But, what is real world, I like your interest in cosmology, as I am the same. Let's talk technology here, that's all this excellent forum is about. And you Al, put your darn photos back, we all enjoyed them so much. I showed them to my wife who just started to join me in this business, and she said that she's never seen anything so artistic in her life. You Al, you help people love this work, which sometimes is so hard and not always a pleasure. But with all of you fine technicians out there, and with your help, young people will join us for a piece of bread that will always exist.